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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203651: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:02:51 PM

Yeah, but there are characters who try to kill hundreds or thousands, and other nasty crimes such as child suicide bombers and sex trafficking in the Bellisarioverse, hence why I asked that.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203652: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:07:04 PM

And you don't really find the depraved shit of criminals minds their. Those guys tend to be the heads of massive terrorist organisations or international groups. So theirs a clear resource difference between the lower serial killers. That's not true of criminal minds where all of them hover at around the same amount of resources

Also what is up you and all these weird and out of nowhere questions.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#203653: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:08:17 PM

[tup] Black Flame.

~Kazuya Prota: First fully human idol singer CM? Overly Narrow Superlative much?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203654: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:13:04 PM

Drax, we're done with Criminal Minds. Your question has nothing to do with anything, and if we skip it over that's probably an indication it's not in the purview of the thread to deal with.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203655: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:16:57 PM

Understood. Also I will return to lurking around this thread and only intend to post when I would like to address entries that should be re-written, of which I found several, or propose occasional suggestions to the trope. I will not be casting votes on proposed characters.

Edited by Draxterrus on Mar 1st 2020 at 3:22:53 AM

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203656: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:25:41 PM

[tup] Adolf "Addie" Hitler III (A Rare Sentence) and Landis Pope

So I've gone through and did counting for my two outstanding EPs (not counting Ardent whom I've withdrawn).

Current counts are:

  • Dormammu (15 [tup], three abstains)
  • Ultron (mostly nay, a few abstains, one or two yeas)

I'll consider Ultron as having "lost" for now (unless Team Ninja does a sequel which I think is unlikely), and start a write-up for Dormy today.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203657: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:31:37 PM

Here, as promised, a second and last candidate from X-Men Fairy Tales.

A villain of the first issue and a severe case of Adaptational Villainy - this version of Magneto, who is nameless leader of the demons and evil incarnate.

Who is leader of demons?

In this story, inspired by an old Japanese tale "Momotaro", which follows this version of Cyclops, who here called Hitome, as he was adopted by an old couple of woodcutters, after they found him in a giant Peach, Magneto is the leader of a demon group, that attacked Emperor's palace and killed a lot of his guards to kidnap his daughter. Taking their hold in the forest, this leader has his demons annihilate armies that Emperor sends to rescue his daughter. A desperate Emperor then pretended to be an ordinary servant, to seek out people with supernatural abilities to rescue his daughter. Finding Hitome, the emperor leads him on a journey, where he found new friends, which are sentient animals based on X-Men characters (like a monkey, which is this version of Beast). As Hitome and the animals form a bond, they finally reach the demon leader, who is disappointed that Emperor has apparently "runned out of armies and started sending people from the Zoo". Remarking that they would make "fine pets", demon leader and his demons attacked the group and after a long fight, Hitome managed to come up with a plan to defeat them. After they rescue the Emperor's daughter, Emperor reveal himself and offer them to work as his royal guards, which they happily agree on.

Heinousness?

Attacked a palace and killed a bunch of people to kidnap Emperor's daughter and then slaughtered several armies. That is enough of a bodycount to stand out in this series (with only The Witch matching up in heinous level). The fact that he kidnapped Emperor's daughter seemingly for no other reason than simply so that Emperor would send his armies after him, which he enjoyed to slaughter, adds some heinous points to him.

Mitigating Qualities?

None. Unlike literally all other version of Magneto, this one doesn't have any higher cause, nor does he display actual care for his fellow demons.

Conclusion?

I will say Yes.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203658: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:39:46 PM

[tup]Magneto I guess

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203659: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:53:13 PM

On second thought, I’ll make a non off-topic suggestion (I suppose) before lurking again. If we are done with Criminal Minds, why not put it on the Never Again List so we can put this series to rest?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#203660: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:03:28 AM

That is not what the NA list is for, its for when people won't stop talking about a charachter.

And even then doing it for entire works is rare, it happens, but its rare.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 1st 2020 at 10:03:41 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203661: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:05:47 AM

I mean none of us are going to bring it up again anyway. Seems overkill.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 12:05:57 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203662: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:09:03 AM

Well. I wouldn't be too sure of that, given this thread's proclivity to revisit certain topics even after we've closed them.

Regardless, I don't we should be putting Criminal Minds on the Never Again list unless someone actually starts pushing the issue.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#203663: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:10:38 AM

Alright, so I just finished reading this fanfic called Epic: The Third Survivor and I believe that I have found a potential candidate. First lets discuss the fanfic

What’s The Work?

Epic: The Third Survivor is a Resident Evil Fan Fic written by Indigo Siren. Taking place during Resident Evil 2, the story follows Sherry Birkin and her ordeals as she tries to survive the zombie outbreak in Raccoon City. Since its a fan fic based on RE2 it should come to no surprise that my candidate is Brian Irons.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Brian Irons is the corrupt chief of police in Raccoon City who allowed the Umbrella Corporation conduct their horrific experiments on the innocent civilians of Raccoon City and in return they would help Irons get elected as mayor of Raccoon City.

Once the zombie outbreak hits Raccoon City causing mass chaos and destruction, Irons goes on a rampage killing zombie, innocent civilians, and even his own police officers.

Irons would also kidnap the Mayor’s daughter, where he proceeds to brutally rape her his desk, then shoot her in her gut, then continued to rape her until she bled to death, before dragging her corpse with him. Oh and poor Sherry had to witness all of what Irons has done to the mayor’s daughter.

Then it’s revealed that Irons has raped and killed numerous other women beforehand where he would stuff their bodies and put them on display in his own personal evil taxidermy sex dungeon of evil.

When Sherry and Claire arrive in Iron’s personal evil taxidermy sex dungeon of evil, they see all of the blood, bones, torture tools, and the mutilated corpses of Irons victims, including the Mayor’s daughter. They also see Irons corpse laying on the fool with a massive hole on his chest implying that Sherry’s mutated father, William, managed to kill Irons.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

It’s Brian Irons, he has no sympathetic nor redeeming qualities nor is he given any here, with the only thing about him is that Umbrella would help Irons be elected mayor if Irons lets the corporations conduct their horrific experiments on the civilians that he was suppose to protect, and that he’s also a Serial Rapist and a human taxidermist. So yeah nothing to see here.

Heinousness

As with in the canon story, Irons manages to stand out in this fan fic because he’s a Serial Rapist who murders his victims afterwards before stuffing their bodies. Plus there is a chapter that describes Iron to actually be raping the Mayor’s daughter before killing her, with Sherry, a child, being an unfortunate witness to that event. So yeah pass here

Final Verdict?

I’ll leave it to you guys to decide.

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 1st 2020 at 10:28:49 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203664: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:11:36 AM

Okay yeah. A greater use of the search function should be encouraged since it sometimes feels like we end up having to say the exact same points over and over again since people don't use it.

But we don't need to add it to the Never again list since we've gone through it and at long as no one starts to press the issue later were good.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203665: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:49:32 AM

Also, in Master of the Universe page, She-Ra (UK Comics, London Editions magazine) section has a weird : sign t the end, making look off and awkward.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203667: Mar 1st 2020 at 1:11:31 AM

[tup]Irons

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203668: Mar 1st 2020 at 1:45:09 AM

[tup]Brian Irons

Fourth version of him.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#203669: Mar 1st 2020 at 2:07:59 AM

[tup] to Landis "Black Flame" Pope, Demon leader and Brian Irons.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203670: Mar 1st 2020 at 2:20:38 AM

Yes to fanfic!Irons, but I'm not remotely feeling demon!Magneto. So he...tries to kill the people sent to stop him? Two incredibly unclear panels of flashback villainy, a few offhanded comments to him wiping out the Emperor's men like literally any other evil overlord would? How is that even remotely heinous enough?

No. Absolutely not to him. There's no focus on any actual heinous villainy for him. I've read the issue to double-check: he's barely even a character. Four lines at most, no motivation for kidnapping the princess (that "he kidnapped the princess just so he could slaughter the Emperor's armies!" thing is bogus; it's trying to create a motive where there literally is none), nothing whatsoever.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 1st 2020 at 3:26:31 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203671: Mar 1st 2020 at 2:22:53 AM

Even not having seen the eps, Foyet DEFINITELY stays. A perfect mix of the grandiose AND the personal.

If Ramos's villainy is ENTIRELY offscreen? Cut him then.

nwotyzal, yes, yes it is [lol]

Can we get a vote count? Preston, Allen, and Replicator seem fairly consensus cuts, so I just requested those. Ramos now seems to be heading that way. Cy's votes are all over the place, and I think Floyd's are too (though the fact that even Lighty's now leaning toward cutting him says something).

BTW, if we DO need a new image, I like the second one of the Reaper (if we don't, that'll make a good image for the main image page).


[tup] "Addie" and Landis. Landis seems like a GREAT example of someone who had redeeming qualities before throwing them all away.

EDIT: Yes to Fanfic!Irons too.

Scraggle, where will "Addie" go? Other continuities?

Edited by ACW on Mar 1st 2020 at 6:26:20 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203672: Mar 1st 2020 at 3:29:46 AM

[up][up]Because armies are still people? Anyway, i proposed Demon!Magento because he seemed to be not an actual overlord, but a leader of a group of like 4 demons (if we include him as well), so that seemed to be enough for me. As for his motivation, his dialogue about being "dissapointed" that "Emperor has runned out of armies" indicated to me that he kidnapped the princess because of sheer thrill of wanting so that Emperor would send his armies after him, so he could kill them as some sort of "sport". And 4 lines seemed to be enough for me, because it was the same amount of personality that Emperor from Of Orcs and Men game has and he was deemed to have enough personality.

Nevertheless, i didn't hide any of that, as i linked all needed comic pages in my EP, so anyone could just look at them and decide if i'm wrong.

Oh well, i seemed to be a little exited to propose the possible first Magneto keeper, so i did. Won't lose any sleep if he get downvoted.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 1st 2020 at 3:37:05 PM

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203674: Mar 1st 2020 at 4:57:57 AM

Why are the Before Watchmen examples in the post crisis folder of Monster.DC Universe. aren't they part of a totally separate continuity from that .

Edited by miraculous on Mar 1st 2020 at 5:00:58 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203675: Mar 1st 2020 at 5:06:25 AM

Yes to Landis (I'm hesitant on him because omnicide isn't unique in this series, but ruling New York as a dictator pushes him over for me) and Fanfic!Irons.

No to Demon!Magneto.

My final word on Criminal Minds: I'll switch to cutting Ramos again, and just to be safe, I'll say cut Floyd as well.


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