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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#203576: Feb 29th 2020 at 3:02:03 PM

...oh wow. Can't say I ever expected an incarnation of the Tinkerer of all characters to be considered monster material. Like, he's usually more of a part time arms dealer, part time sweet old man, yeah? Very curious about that effortpost, I've gotta say.

And then: yes to yet another version of Dormammu, the Beast, Mike, and The Witch. And I'm going to echo the sentiment to say no to Ultron since Dormammu's villainy at least feels distinctly horrible enough to stand out with what little screentime he has. Ultron just seems incredibly generic in comparison.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#203577: Feb 29th 2020 at 3:20:28 PM

Thanks Lalalei!!

  • Piecing Together the Ashes: Reconstructing the Old World Order: The man known as The Beast was the last American president before The Deluge. An Far Right American military leader, the Beast staged a coup against a Leftist president to take control over the country. When Canada, Mexico and Cuba criticized said action, The Beast either ordered the overthrown of their governments and put friendly dictators in change or invaded the countries. When America was harshly santioned by the international community, the Beast threatened to unleash hell on earth, which he did by ordering the use of multiple nuclear weapons throught the world while believing himself a messager of God, killing billions and causing the collapse of modern civilization. A brutal petty bigot that tried to send American Muslims to reeducation camps, The Beast's crimes made him feared and hated even generations after his death, with his figure becoming the personification of evil to future civilizations.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 29th 2020 at 6:20:38 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203578: Feb 29th 2020 at 3:39:20 PM

Last call for Criminal Minds discussion.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#203579: Feb 29th 2020 at 3:47:26 PM

Cutting Cy won't sit right with me, but again, I can live with the other cuts.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203580: Feb 29th 2020 at 3:58:39 PM

Of them, Cy would be the one I’d lean keep to for the sheer vile edge of his crimes with how he also does the sight, scent or taste ‘test.’ Guy is twisted

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#203581: Feb 29th 2020 at 3:59:45 PM

Personally fine with Cy staying.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203582: Feb 29th 2020 at 4:16:44 PM

Yes to the Beast, Michael, and the Witch. I still say cut Bradstone, Allen, Preston, Curtis, Foyet, and Ramos.

EDIT: On second thought, I'll say keep Ramos.

Also, since I forgot to say it earlier, happy birthday, Kazuya!

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 29th 2020 at 4:35:43 AM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#203583: Feb 29th 2020 at 4:22:14 PM

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 29th 2020 at 6:53:06 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#203586: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:11:42 PM

I'm not... fucking touching this Criminal Minds mess.

CJCroen1393 Pokemon Trainer from The Western Interior Seaway (Ancient one) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Pokemon Trainer
#203587: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:20:44 PM

Lurker jumping in for a moment: It would appear a few writeups have been added to the YMMV of their work pages but not to the CM subpages. The Skinwalker, Dante, Nyarlathotep and Darius are the ones I'm seeing. I was worried about bringing this up, due to the risk of sounding too impatient, but I'm curious if that was a mistake or if we're simply waiting for something.

Also, I hadn't brought this up sooner, but Thenardier was apparently approved and is currently on Les Mis' YMMV page since May of 2019, but has yet to appear on the Literature subpage, which I definitely think might need correcting.

(I apologize if I'm being rude ^_^;)

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203589: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:22:48 PM

[up][up] Probably just the mods not getting to them if batches were posted, I'd expect

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203590: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:23:22 PM

[up][up][up]The Les Miserables entry is on the Literature page under M.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 29th 2020 at 5:23:29 AM

CJCroen1393 Pokemon Trainer from The Western Interior Seaway (Ancient one) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Pokemon Trainer
#203591: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:28:38 PM

[up]OOOOOOOOH. That makes more sense now that I think about it, thanks XD

[up][up] Ah, that sounds about right.

Edited by CJCroen1393 on Feb 29th 2020 at 5:28:59 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#203592: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:34:43 PM

I guess we can keep Cy. His MO and the implications that he probably claimed more victims, might be just enough for him to still stand out.

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 29th 2020 at 4:11:45 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203593: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:45:06 PM

Another post, and thanking LordYam for this one.

What's the setting?

Freedom Fighters is a team of DC superheroes imagined on "Earth X," an alternate Earth where the Nazis managed to take over America. The team consists of mainstays like Black Condor, Human Bomb, Phantom Lady and Doll Man (or Woman), led by the literal Anthropomorphic Personification of America's patriotism, Uncle Sam himself. The series was recently rebooted in 2019 and finished up its run last month, reimagined in the modern day with the original Freedom Fighters killed and their successors taking up their mantles.

Our candidate is Adolf Hitler. No, not the original Hitler—he makes a single appearance and then dies of old age. Not his son, either Adolf Hitler II, who's vile but ultimately just a pathetic worm unable to cope with his father's psychotic demands.

Adolf Hitler III...oh boy.

Who is Adolf Hitler III/"Addie"? What has he done?

While Adolf Hitler II is a stressed-out autocrat desperately attempting to manage the failures of the global Reich, "Addie" is the polar opposite of his father. An overweight monster with a perpetual air of Dissonant Serenity to him who couldn't give less of a shit about the Reich itself, Addie is a sadist's sadist who has his own private torture sanctum underneath a fortified mountain. Addie is very rehearsed in the art of horrible torture, priding himself on having the imagination, both his grandfather and father lacked, and he gets practice often. At one point, Addie casually plucks out a severed finger from his pockets—"my, how ever did that get there?"

Addie is introduced in the middle of old habits carving apart a man suspended with hooks in his flesh. Addie is tasked to crack down on the rebellion by his father and Addie says he'll get on it, but not before terrifying the bugfuck out of Adolf Hitler II by prying into his insecurities. Later on, two of his own soldiers gun down a supposedly-extinct bald eagle. Vaguely suspecting the two men to be spies for firing their weapons without sanction, Addie carves the two apart, torturing one of the men to death before his other soldiers drag up the dead eagle and verify the soldiers' story. Addie decides he'll have the creature taxidermied...and orders the soldier who shot it tortured to death anyway.

Tensions continue to increase as the Freedom Fighters topple more and more of the regime. Addie manages to capture Human Bomb, whose skin is so sensitive it explodes at the slightest touch, making him invulnerable to most forms of pain...which Addie only sees as a delightful challenge. Addie tortures Human Bomb for days on end, and when bullets, gas, fire and pressurization prove ineffective, Addie one-ups himself by revealing he's kidnapped Doll Woman and torturing her in front of Human Bomb to break them both.

The Freedom Fighters finally break into Addie's personal base and Addie is forced to leave his captives. When Addie sees his father break down under the stress of it all, Addie unrelentingly cuts his own father's throat and assumes full authority. Addie orders the Reich's Kryptonian pet project, the Overman, unleashed on the Freedom Fighters, and when Overman is defeated Addie simply decides to detonate a nuclear device to kill everything within five-hundred kilometers—the Freedom Fighters, all of his own men, innocent civilians—while he moves on to kickstart the Reich bigger and bloodier than ever.

The Freedom Fighters prevail and eventually lead a full turn against the Nazis around the world. No biggie to Addie, who goes into hiding in Argentina (and indicates he killed the one other soldier who knows where he is), where Addie is living a content life in hiding torturing villagers to death while mockingly remarking to his father's severed head that his only concern now is if he'll "run out" of people to kill. Unfortunately for him, Black Condor (who earlier ingested a formula that turns him into a monstrous Plastic Man-esque entity) corners him just when he thinks he's safe, and the last we hear is Addie screaming for his father to help him...

Any mitigating factors?

Hahaha. Even with a whole load of Nazi atrocities we see in the comic? Addie is the worst of all of them. He's nastier than his father and his grandfather put together and the comic makes a point of emphasizing that. He crosses the standard through his "usual proclivities" alone and everything after that kicks him ten miles further.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 29th 2020 at 7:05:51 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#203598: Feb 29th 2020 at 6:00:54 PM

[tup] Hitler III and yeah you’re welcome. This guy was vile

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

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