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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#203526: Feb 29th 2020 at 9:42:11 AM

[tdown] Ardent. Also changing my [tup] to an abstain on Ultron

[up] Congrats, dude.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 29th 2020 at 9:50:43 AM

It's Spooky Month!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#203528: Feb 29th 2020 at 9:47:43 AM

[tdown] Ardent. Well, guess we will not be getting a Discworld page.

Also, abstain but leaning [tdown] on Ultron.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203529: Feb 29th 2020 at 10:51:46 AM

@N: I'm still going to watch the film version of Going Postal for Reacher Gilt, who is reportedly much nastier (and Stupid Evil-er) than in the book. We'll see what happens from there, and y'never know, The Watch might have a couple of nasties in it.

@Beast: congrats. Being an uncle is fecking brilliant.

Anyway, this is my final EP for the weekend.

My next EP is for Dormammu, the Arc Villain for the Dark Dimension Chapter of Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order. This is my final EP for the game, nobody else comes close.

Who is Dormammu?

Dormammu, as always, is the Dimension Lord of the Dark Dimension, and the Arch-Enemy to Stephen Strange. The heroes find themselves in his domain once they are forced to flee from Corvus Glaive and Proxima Midnight of the titular Black Order (plus their hundreds of Outriders); Scarlet Witch ends up creating a portal into the Dark Dimension for the alliance to flee while Cyclops, Colossus and Juggernaut hold them off. Once they arrive, however, the party conclude things have gone From Bad to Worse.

What does Dormammu do?

Dormammu is, for the first part of the level, relatively inactive as he is unaware of the heroes presence, so they fight through the Mindless Ones while trying desperately to stay alive. Along the way, however, they quickly meet Elsa Bloodstone of NEXTWAVE fame, who ended up in there after a portal to the Dark Dimension opened in her native London, England and she ended up going through to close it off. Helping her fend off the Ones who had surrounded her, she joins the alliance and the group progress onwards, also meeting Ghost Rider and recruiting him while closing a few rifts into the "main" dimension (i.e. to Earth) to stop the Mindless Ones invading there too.

The group eventually meet Dr Strange, muttering a spell with his back turned to the heroes' direction. They try to get his attention, realising that he is actually widening a portal and not closing it, Brainwashed and Crazy by Dormammu to grant him access so that Dormammu can merge their realities; this is a prospect discussed throughout the level that horrifies even Token Evil Teammate Magneto and Deadpool. The heroes are forced to fight Strange to lift the brainwashing and stop him opening the portal; this is in two stages, one where Strange is just brainwashed, and a second when Dormammu possesses him directly. In the second stage, Dormammu mocks him for being an inferior sorcerer, relishes dominating Strange through his possession and taunts the alliance that they're saving Strange even while his body is used to try and kill them for the "crime" of trespassing into his realm. Thankfully, the second attempt is enough for the heroes to drive Dormammu out of Strange's mind.

Now with Strange in tow, the heroes are about to go until they learn from Strange that Dormammu has an Infinity Stone, which opened the first rift between the Dark Dimension and "our" dimension, which is how Strange came to be possessed and in the DD. To make matters worse, this is the Reality Stone, which Dormammu plans to use to rip holes into every dimension so he can enslave every one and mutate each so it resembles the DD - diseased, almost lifeless and under his brutal control. After Dormammu starts to "play" with the Reality Stone to mess with the heroes' perception of it (and a brief boss fight with Loki that's not related), they reach Dread himself, who vows "THE FUTURE HOLDS ONLY DARKNESS... FOR YOU AND ALL OF REALITY!" The boss battle begins.

Expoloiting a side-effect of the Reality Stone, which generates Dark Dimension-infused crystals, the gang manage to turn Dormammu's own incredible firepower back on him and temporarily discorporate him, reclaiming the stone in the process. The gang swiftly grab it, but he vows to return stronger than ever before... and does so within minutes, quashing any pretence of finding the gang or Strange to be a Worthy Opponent. Vowing that he cannot be destroyed, Strange opens a portal and they get through just in time to avoid Dormammu's giant arm squashing where they were standing.

Heinousness?

Like Ultron, whom I EPed before, Dormammu is not the Big Bad; however, unlike Ultron, Dormy is instead a Greater-Scope Villain with ambitions eclipsing those of Thanos, who actually has a few redeeming qualities. Dormammu, aside from being a bit more Faux Affably Evil than usual, is terrifyingly sadistic and plans to use the Reality Stone not for "mere" conquest as was the case with most other chapter-only baddies, but to outright absorb reality into the Dark Dimension and render it all like his own world - miserable, dark and a place of despair. Even Thanos, the Omnicidal Maniac he was, didn't want to outright destroy reality.

Unlike Ultron, who had a bit more screentime, Dormammu isn't entirely aware of the heroes being there from the start, so he's a bit slower to act than some of the other villains are. However, he's cruel enough to Strange from the starting point, and much more personally antagonising than most of the others. Once he works out they're present, he takes a degree of sadistic pleasure in trying to kill them with their own, mind-controlled friend (for the "crime" of ending up in the realm by accident when trying to flee), then deliberately fucks with the team using the Reality Stone and vows to absorb/dominate all of reality, not just earth or humanity.

Mitigating Factors

My biggest doubt here is not redeeming qualities - Dormammu has none - but the big issue is the screentime. His ambitions are not mitigating, and indeed he comes closer to his goal than Ultron did onscreen (which I know was a big reason for some people voting [tdown]), but he's only directly present in two scenes. I do know we have approved other candidates with limited screentime despite this, but because they did some really foul stuff with that time.

With that said, there's one I want to pre-emptively cross off the list. Any respect he shows is Baddie Flattery at best; he doesn't actually view them as a Worthy Opponent and he's genuinely angered when they temporarily defeat him, vowing to kill them painfully and then snuff reality as they know it out, to be replaced by darkness. He also views Strange as inferior and a toy to play with.

Dormammu is also not Played for Laughs; even Deadpool stops making jokes when the Dimension becomes too much for him to bear.

Conclusion

Aside from Ultron, he's the only plausible candidate I can think of, unless MUA 3 gets a sequel sometime. My big doubt is on the screen-time, but I think Dormammu might have sufficiently heinous goals - rivalling those of Thanos - and lack redeeming qualities to make a [tup]. I won't lose too much sleep either way, however.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203530: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:03:33 AM

Uh slight yes to Dormammu. I'd approve him over ultron at least since his plan sounds worse and he comes closer to it unlike poor ult.

Plus he sounds much worse.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 29th 2020 at 11:06:28 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203532: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:14:01 AM

[tup] to Dormammu. Congrats, Beast!

[down]No, he also voiced Lord Darkan.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 29th 2020 at 11:22:57 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203533: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:20:40 AM

If Dormammu goes up. Would he be the first for Phil LaMarr?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203534: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:24:27 AM

Second. He was also Lord Darkan in Kulipari: Dream Walker

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#203536: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:37:13 AM

[tup] to Dormammu and Ultron. Maybe the upcoming Discworld TV series might have a keeper or two, and there are other, existing adaptations we might look into.

Congratulations, Beast.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#203537: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:45:51 AM

So, Piecing Together the Ashes: Reconstructing the Old Order is a Post Apocalyptic timeline from AH.com about the Future Imperfect state of the future humanity after a worldwide nuclear war centuries after the event, known as The Deluge. It's still on going, but given we known the worst crimes of this guy and his character arc isn't going anywhere (we may learn more details, but he is pretty characterized for a Posthumous Character with Word of God saying that Yes, even with the Future Imperfect thing, his crimes actually happened as historians tell).

Who is The Beast?

A man so feared and hated that even though future academics know his name, they choose to forget it as a sort of divine punishment. The Beast was the last of the People's King of the American Empire, or as we know it, American President.

The Beast was a far right general who did a coup d state against Carter The Iron, a Left Wing president on 2046. A massive xenophobe and chauvinist, the Beast launched coups on Canada, Cuba and Mexico and put brutal dictatorships on them after those nations condemned his coup, such actions earned him the hatred of the EU, Russia and China. When those nations finally put santions against USA, the Beast was unwilling to not be the top dog and threatened to unleash hell on Earth if the other governments didn't agreed to leave him do what he wanted.

He fullfilled his promise and fired multiple nuclear weapons through the world, effectively destroying civilization overnight. Is unknown if the Beast survived the catastrophe, but his deeds made him a demonic figure among many of the new religions of the future Earth except on some cults descended from Far Right Communities.

Heinous standard?

Far Right Dictator who destroyed the world over petty hatred and a belief that God Told Him So (later info is via Word of God, this is AH, Word of God is very important for this class of details because the narrative structive of some made impossible to get them otherwise).

Easy pass.

Redeeming traits?

None at all. We know his personality and it wasn't a pleasant one, he was a ultra nationalist but he certainly didn't care about the fate of his country given that USA got predictably destroyed on the Deluge as well.

Verdict?

So far, he is a easy [tup]. His story arc was over weeks ago and all left for him are small details that the author might or not add.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 29th 2020 at 3:32:50 PM

Watch me destroying my country
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203538: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:50:16 AM

So returning to Darcy Coates whose pretty much a queen of ghost writing we have a more human villain..

Whats the work?

Dead lake by Darcy Coates.

A week's visit to the remote Harob Lake cabin couldn't have come at a better time for Sam.

She's battling artist's block ahead of a major gallery exhibition. Staying at Harob Lake is her final, desperate attempt to paint the collection that could save her floundering career. It seems perfect: no neighbours, no phone, no distractions.

But the dream retreat disintegrates into a nightmare when Sam discovers she's being stalked.

A tall, strange man stands on the edge of her dock, staring intently into the swirling waters below. He starts to follow her. He disables her car. He destroys her only way to communicate with the outside world.

And Sam is beginning to suspect he's responsible for the series of disappearances from a nearby hiking trail.

Stranded at Harob Lake, Sam realises she’s become the prey in the hunter’s deadliest game

Who is Michael Paluhik/The Gray eyed man ?

A man born with a lust for killing. Michael apleared to be a quiet and shy man to people close to him but in truth would fantasize about butchering his mother and sisters. One day we'll on a camping trip with two of his friends he decided to act on it. He killed them and then set their deaths up to be accidental before faking his death and running into the forest and deciding to live their. From then on Michael became a Serial Killer who would take the lives of hikers to the lake. Accumulating 18 victism over the years. Whose fingers he cut off to be put in a jar for his collection. Michael then dumps their bodies below the dock of the lake.

Now the lake is enchanted since this is a Darcy Coates book. The ghosts of his victims are still around and try to warn sam to stay away. As the villainous figure she dubbs the gray eyed man he begins sadistically stalking her with a grinning smile on his face. Sam starts to have visison from the ghosts of the murders which she paints. H in gleefully butchering people while the knife is in his hand.

Eventually she becomes creeped out enough to want to leave. She sees him and her car is downed by him to keep her here and to drive her fear up before he kills her so she heads off into the woods and finds his cabin with all of his jars containing fingers proudly placed. He is about to arrive and she getswas out and is able to get back to her cabin and lock the door. She then phones the park ranger for help.

In the meantime she sees him looking at something on the lake which he srest to find inteersting (since I don't think he's aware of her breaking into his house). She then fate he she goes to the dock she peers underneath to see what he was looking at....and finds dozens of corpses with one telling Jr to leave now and get away to safety.

And of course she runs. Later that night she decides to just leave after Brandon the ranger don't respond. And finds Michael who with a sadistic grin decides to gleefully chase her with a knife. Moving confidently that he owns this world. They head to the dock and she gets on a boat yo paddle away. He uses a boat hook to hook it and try and drag her to shorebe and is about to fins her off.. Till the corpses of his victims which are near the dock reanimate and suddenly dozens of them drag him under the water, killing him. Ian as a corpse ghost thanks her for finding them and bringing h in close enough that they could do that and simply asks that his body could be found and sent back to bid parents for a proper burial before passing on.

Freudian Excuse ?

Nah his diary reveals he Was born rotten.

Rexeemong quality?

No redeeming qualities. Okay let me gget the big one out of the way. He uh doesn't speak. But he does have an actail personality. We see him sadisctally taunt herme, his grinning his sadistic smile and his weirdly relaxed way that he saunteers while walking and trying to kill her like he owns the place and is king. Plus and most importantly we see his diary which goes into his motives into killings and why he likes it and his mo and even better thanks to Sam's vision portraits we see his murders and his utter joy at them. Stalking her and disabling her car and phones so to prepare her into a greater state of fear before killing her. So yes I do think he has enough of one taken together.

Heinous standard ?

He stalks and gleefully butchers 20 people. For a standalone novel and where we see the corpses of his victims that's impressive.

Conclusion?

All yours.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 29th 2020 at 11:51:00 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#203539: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:52:19 AM

This one suggested to me by Bullman

What's the work?

Marvel Fairy Tales is a 12 issue series of comics, which take characters from Marvel Universe and put them in stories, based on old fairy tales, with each issue taking place in its own universe. Separated in 3 volumes, 4 issue each, volumes are named based on which characters and concepts they put in their fairy tales, like first four issue called X-Men Fairy Tales, because it uses X-Men characters for their stories, second volume called Spider-Man Fairy Tales and third and final volume called Avengers Fairy Tales. Now we have a keeper from third issue of Spider-Man Fairy Tales, I have read all volumes of the series and while most villains are either have redeeming qualities or too generic to count, I believe I found two candidate worth of proposing from X-Men Fairy Tales (All villains in Avengers Fairy Tales are too generic for me to propose).

First is from third issue and it is a unique take on an iconic X-Men character, Phoenix (or as she is called in the tale, The Witch).

Who is The Witch?

In this version, which is something of retelling of Snow White tale with X-Men characters, Phoenix is the powerful Witch, who terrorized the lands and was seemingly killed by wizards, other witches and kings. Arising from the dead in the form of Burning Phoenix, the witch possesses the red-haired princess (this version of Jean Grey) and used her as a host to brutally slaughter entire armies of people and hoped to take the kingdom for herself. The knight (this version of Wolverine), who was in love with the princess, traveled to fight with her and managed to bring back at least part of the princess back with his love for her (enough for Jean to fight back for control of her body with the Witch), which resulted in the princess falling in an endless sleep. Wolverine was unable to kill The Witch, because it would mean to kill princess too. He instead put her in a glass coffin deep in the woods. There, after many years, the Tailor (this version of Cyclops) was lured to her coffin in his search for a wife and awakens the princess with a kiss. While The Witch still dormant in her (due to not "waking up" yet), the princess acted normally (aside from fearing sharp objects, due to having nasty memories from when The Witch controlled her), until the former knight heard of this and arrived to Tailor's house to try to kill her, resulting in The Witch taking control of her again and fly away, promising to double her terror on the lands from now on.

The tailor and former knight go and search for her, due to believing themselves to be at fault for her being "awaken". As former knight tells of The Witch (who by now was reduced to a myth) to the tailor, The Witch appears before them and kills off the former knight by burning him (with the princess inside being aware of what's going on enough to shed a tear), when he tried to attack her. Preparing to do so with the Tailor as well, she was tricked by the Tailor and touched his magic orb (with which he saw things, as the orb was sentient and allow him to see through itself), resulting in the princess taking control of her body again and after a talk, the princess convinces the Tailor to kill her, so The Witch could die and never threaten the lands ever again.

Heinousness?

Each issue taking place in its own universe and even if we take the whole thing, The Witch is easily one of the most heinous villains in the series (as most of them are too generic, with only 2-3 victims and some didn't even manage to kill anyone), shown to have slaughtered entire armies and terrorized the lands, fully intending on taking the kingdom for herself and bring death and chaos to the people everywhere.

Mitigating Qualities?

None. Phoenix here is a witch, who has a full agency and sentience and personality, that she shows by her dialogue, whenever she takes control of the princess.

Conclusion?

I will say Yes.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#203540: Feb 29th 2020 at 11:54:30 AM

So, this whole "Person X says this, so other opinions are invalid" thing? Is one of the reasons why I'm not around here that much anymore. This is not in good form at all.

And yes, it was 2-3 pages back, but I just wanted to reiterate it. It doesn't matter who has been around here for the longest. Everyone has the same rights, as long as they adhere to the rules. Please refrain from that.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#203541: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:01:04 PM

[up]Well, it does not happen TOO often. I feel like that is kind of an odd reason to avoid the thread altogether. I will admit to having been guilty of the Big Three mentality is the past, but I was informed of it and promptly made an effort to stop.

[tup] Dormy (I once got a candidate up who literally appeared for a handful of frames), Beast, Grey-eyed Man, and Witch.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203542: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:04:57 PM

Yes to Beast, Grey eyed Man, and Witch. Thanks for that one Vile, can't wait to see the next one.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 29th 2020 at 2:13:06 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203543: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:08:44 PM

[tup]the beast and witch.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203545: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:10:57 PM

Yes to Beast, Mike and Witch.

Also, that's three EP's posted instantly in succession. Please anyone who's thinking of an EP now, give some time for people to read and catch up.

And I'm just gonna say I personally never want to see "this user wouldn't like it" as a reason for cutting or keeping

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203546: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:21:32 PM

Can I just say that darcy coates is one hell of an unsubtle author. Of the four novels of hers I've read. Only one didn't have a cm candidate due to legit insanity and she was still a person who infected a village with a virus to rot people from the inside out.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#203547: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:25:52 PM

[tup] to The Beast, Michael Paluhik and the Witch.

I'll abstain on Ultron and Dormammu.

Edited by MGD107 on Feb 29th 2020 at 12:26:30 PM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#203549: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:35:15 PM

[tup] to the beast, michael, and the witch

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017

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