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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#203376: Feb 28th 2020 at 1:30:34 PM

[tup]Ibara and Shadowbeast

[tdown]Melanie

cut Xerosic (bit iffy an him qualifying in the first place) and the King (just leave Da Ji)

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 28th 2020 at 1:34:24 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203377: Feb 28th 2020 at 1:31:18 PM

@Wary I legit thought Melanie counted (might still). I should have asked more people in PM though because then the EP could have been more open-minded to the idea that, as crazy as it was, her being motivated by what happened to Nick could be redeeming enough. Most of the time I’m not EP ing someone just for the sake of EP ing them. I’m usually trying to make a case.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 28th 2020 at 1:33:24 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#203378: Feb 28th 2020 at 1:39:46 PM

BTW, because someone asked if the original version of Daji would count, would the original versions of, say, Bakasura or Ah Puch would qualify (yes those are all the candidates from Smite)

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#203379: Feb 28th 2020 at 1:43:59 PM

[tup] to Ibara

Everyone should feel free to EP anyone that they feel like qualifies, wether or not they get voted down. There is no shame in EPing characters whatsoever, and we should never shame anyone from EPing characters.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#203380: Feb 28th 2020 at 1:52:37 PM

I say we wait to cut the King until Lighty gets a chance to verify.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203382: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:07:57 PM

The king says “you killed my wife. I’ll have your hide for that” to the heroes while laughing evilly.

Given how incoherent the film is? Better safe than sorry now.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203383: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:15:32 PM

What G said. Heck, there've been a few candidates I effortposted who I myself wasn't sure about, but wanted a definitive answer either way.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203384: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:27:41 PM

Having been on the giving and receiving end of this at least once, I concur with G.

I should really know better than to post stuff like "you should know better than to effortpost this candidate". I can always give a good reason for voting either way without being condescending.

With that said, the king should be Deposed as a Monster, as Lighty suggested.

Addendum: [tup] Ibarra.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 28th 2020 at 5:31:49 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#203385: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:35:28 PM

Honestly I’d be fine with keeping the king if he’s bursting out laughing while he says it but I can live with the decision either way. Yes to Ibara, no to Melanie but Wary, I’m hard pressed as to how you didn’t think that wouldn’t sound rude. This is along the lines of your previous “whatever lol” and you need to curb this attitude. I appreciate your insight on things like reevaluating Aerys but this behaviour needs to go.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203386: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:39:17 PM

Cut the king.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 28th 2020 at 2:41:44 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203387: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:40:23 PM

And a reminder that final Criminal Minds discussion will come tomorrow, and that will take care of that. Unless we have a Syndrome or Scar thing where redeeming qualities aren't in fact disqualifying.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#203388: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:49:51 PM

[up][up][up] Okay I didn't want to get into an argument, but since you called me out specifically I think telling me off for saying "whatever lol" in a single comment more than a week ago and then lecturing on me on how you "appreciated" an EP I did but my attitude "needs to go", on single comment that rubbed you the wrong way, to be infinitely more condescending and rude than anything I've posted here.

You have no authority to make those sort of semi-threats at other users and you have no right to decide which comments are "legitimate" to be allowed to post and call out/lecture anyone that doesn't meet your personal standard. Trying to minimod and censor people through that sort of condescending lecture because their comment personally rubbed you the wrong way even when they didn't break any rules is far more obnoxious and toxic then any of the comments that get "called out" and something I'm not just going to nod my head to when you do it to me. No one here has been appointed thread mod or thread censor who gets to proclaim which comments are allowed to be posted, including you.

With that said I apologize if my earlier comment about the EP was taken the wrong way and I didn't mean it as an insult but just as an observation but I can see how it lead to that impression.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 28th 2020 at 2:57:21 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#203390: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:56:36 PM

I think it's best if everyone move on from this topic at this point. We're all just stating the same thing at this point, and arguing over who may or may not have been condescending or rude isn't going to solve anything. If someone does something arguably rude, then someone calls out that rudeness, and then that rudeness is considered rudeness even though the alleged rude comment was made over a rude comment...

Well that's just a shit-fuck of rude, now ain't it?

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203391: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:57:46 PM

I’m inclined to agree. If there are issues to be hashed out, I think it should be done over PM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#203392: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:58:16 PM

I agree that we shouldn't fight in the main thread anymore and I have nothing further to say about this here

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203393: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:01:30 PM

This never should have spilled out into the main thread. This behavior has no sanction here whatsoever, neither perceived dickery nor dickish responses. This is not a thread for griping with other users.

43, Wary, a pro tip for the future: if either one of you have a grievance with the other worth bringing up, please please please please don't have it on the public threadspace. Send a message through PM. I'm beginning to twitch from how many ultimately pointless arguments are brought up here when they really, really shouldn't.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 28th 2020 at 4:04:40 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#203394: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:02:37 PM

[up] I understand, I only responded on here because the comment calling me out by name was also done on here but I apologize and won't get into these sort of fights in the future

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203395: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:25:49 PM

I was mostly ignored about my previous post. The point I want to make here is that the two effort posts I linked to there need write ups but write ups had not been done yet.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203397: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:28:51 PM

PM the original troper. If they're not responding, have someone else write them up.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203398: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:30:27 PM

I can volunteer to write up their candidates if they don't respond/don't want to, unless someone else wants to do it.

[down]A day or two, maybe. If they don't respond, send them another one, and if another day has passed and they still haven't responded, I or someone else can write up their characters.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 28th 2020 at 3:33:55 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203399: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:30:33 PM

How long should I wait for a response from the PM?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#203400: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:55:27 PM

I can also help with the write ups if needed.


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