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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203326: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:10:05 AM

[tup] Shadowbeast.

P.S. Scraggle, mind doing me a favor and writing up Ming so I can knock both off?

Edited by ACW on Feb 28th 2020 at 6:16:39 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203327: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:38:48 AM

Gimme til this afternoon and I'll have my batch written up, Ming (and Blight) included.

[up] Eyep, I'll get him up soon and write him up.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 28th 2020 at 5:22:54 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203328: Feb 28th 2020 at 3:43:53 AM

What about Landis Pope? Is he the final Mignola keeper?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203330: Feb 28th 2020 at 4:02:20 AM

@acw: I think you can cut xerosic now. Cut votes way outweigh the few keep ones at this point.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203331: Feb 28th 2020 at 5:06:17 AM

I concur on Robotnik. He also puts San Francisco at risk when he goes after Sonic there, but yeah, he’s way too over-the-top and comedic to count.

[down]Thanks for voting as you saw fit falcon.

MGD, thanks for keeping your vote.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 28th 2020 at 6:08:04 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#203332: Feb 28th 2020 at 5:22:11 AM

Yes to the Shadowbeast. As for Melanie, as Future said, I did approve of her in PM, but after reading the arguments over, I think I'm going to have to go with my initial feelings on her and vote no.

As for the Diabolik entries, I'd personally be fine with them just being rewritten without EPs, but that's just me.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 28th 2020 at 5:24:36 AM

Rmpdc Ghoulish Brain Worm from Philippines Since: May, 2015 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Ghoulish Brain Worm
#203333: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:02:57 AM

Would fictionalized depictions of real life people or supposedly real life people be allowed here? I remember posting one such profile here but it got rejected because (1) It was from a newly released episode and (2) Because many people thought that this was an accurate true-to-life depiction.

"We are gonna sit here and take it! You hear me!? We're gonna take it!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203334: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:03:58 AM

Depends. A docudrama, for example, would probably be fine, and we have a dozen or so incarnations of Hitler.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203335: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:08:48 AM

Tyk was unsure in PM when I discussed it with him and if he thought there was a reason Melanie didn’t count, it wasn’t because she genuinely cared for Nick, it was because he didn’t think she killed enough people as a Horror villain. I obviously don’t agree with that and think the cruelty is enough, but again, he can speak for himself.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203336: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:17:11 AM

I think it’s a classic case of “being really bad doesn’t invalidate a redeeming quality” and I don’t care if she’s insane or unbalanced. That only compounds my own no

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203337: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:23:04 AM

Distorted altruism is still altruism.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203338: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:41:18 AM

Heads up, people. I found out that a troper named Haldron44Stroika had made several effort posts, but only a few were approved. This troper has written up an entry for one of the approved candidates, but the rest were not written up or resolved. Here are links to some effort posts of approved characters:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=7735#193375

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=7759#193974

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#203339: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:48:57 AM

To be honest I haven't been following most of the discussions lately, including the Melanie one. I'll give my thoughts on the matter later when I'm on my lunch break.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#203340: Feb 28th 2020 at 7:54:43 AM

Just got out of class to read up. I also went to see The Invisible Man (2020) last night.

[tup] Shadowbeast.

[tdown] to Melanie.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203341: Feb 28th 2020 at 8:07:31 AM

[up][up][up] belated [tup] to Tarkin and Palpatine from Empire at War, and Von Karma

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#203342: Feb 28th 2020 at 8:27:40 AM

Yeah, I'm gonna have to vote [tdown] for Melanie Cole. Unintentionally Unsympathetic =/= Complete Monster.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203345: Feb 28th 2020 at 8:54:34 AM

@Tyk Well there’s Ahmanet, but yeah, that arc makes even less sense surprisingly enough.

[down]Melanie idealized him, but yeah, Ahmanet’s crimes are way worse and the writers attempts to make Ahmanet tragic after all she did were pathetic.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 28th 2020 at 8:58:35 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203346: Feb 28th 2020 at 8:55:51 AM

That's not even remotely close to the same. Ahmanet murdered her family and tries to weakly justify it, even though all we see onscreen is a power hungry killer who sold her soul to the god of evil to bring about destruction and death.

With Melanie, we have a mentally disturbed young woman acting out for the benefit of another person.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203347: Feb 28th 2020 at 8:57:18 AM

What's the argument for her. That she's insane?

I uh don't think that's the best choice since uh well it doesn't rally change the mitigating factor or anything

Edited by miraculous on Feb 28th 2020 at 9:00:53 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203348: Feb 28th 2020 at 9:01:21 AM

@mir That it wasn’t a legit emotional connection and she just wanted a reason to hurt people. That said, we also don’t see the actual interactions with Nick so while there’s not a whole lot of weight added to them, there’s admittedly not a lot against them either.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203349: Feb 28th 2020 at 9:05:34 AM

future.

You are attempting to propose someone so delusional she thinks a single date with someone makes them soulmates and is attempting to benefit him via her deeds. Why are you so convinced this character keeps?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203350: Feb 28th 2020 at 9:14:34 AM

@Lighty I didn’t really think it was redeeming and that any logic behind it was very flawed and meaningless. I had other reasons that weren’t very logical or reasonable too I admit.

I admit I was wrong though. I’ll switch to abstain.

Actually I’ll keep my yes, but understand that only Bullman and MGD agree.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 29th 2020 at 12:53:10 PM


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