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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203301: Feb 27th 2020 at 9:51:57 PM

Yes, but it doesn't necessarily negate the fact her entire Evil Plan seems based off the notion Nick was the only person genuinely kind to her. It's not a valid excuse in the slightest for the shit she gets up to, but I'm not entirely inclined to write it off entirely as just possessiveness under those circumstances.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 27th 2020 at 10:52:26 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#203302: Feb 27th 2020 at 9:52:21 PM

[up][up] That's your opinion. Unless you can show the movie making the same points you are you personally thinking her backstory is "absurd" doesn't mean anything in terms of this thread.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 27th 2020 at 9:52:33 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203303: Feb 27th 2020 at 9:55:05 PM

@Scraggle He's the wallpaper on her phone and she has a picture of him. Keep in mind, this is a man that is pretty much a few steps removed from a stranger. She acts like she was his girlfriend. She WASN'T.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 27th 2020 at 9:56:02 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203304: Feb 27th 2020 at 9:57:36 PM

And again, that doesn't negate the fact her entire plan comes down to a twisted version of Because You Were Nice to Me. From where I'm standing, that one act of kindness toward her seems to be the one and only thing the little psychopath has to hold onto except for Disproportionate Retribution in the name of said kindness.

This argument is starting to go around in circles. I'm going to officiate my "nay"—somewhat tentatively because I can still see wiggle room concerning how that quality is played in the film, but it'll have to wait until a second opinion or until I see the film myself.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203305: Feb 27th 2020 at 9:58:15 PM

@Scraggle Alright. Fair enough. Agree to Disagree then. Thank you for your honesty though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 27th 2020 at 10:22:06 AM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203306: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:28:10 PM

[tup] Shadowbeast.

[tdown] Melanie, due to corrupted altruistic traits.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#203307: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:38:15 PM

[tup] to the Shadowbeast

abstain on Malaine

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#203308: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:43:56 PM

[tdown] Melanie. Her getting revenge for that man is the crutch of her plan.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203309: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:53:56 PM

@Austin So is her revenge on Sloane and she's being nothing but overly and unnecessarily sadistic about the entire situation. Sheer pettiness and cruelty.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203310: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:54:11 PM

[tup] Shadow beast

[tdown] Melanie

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#203312: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:14:47 PM

[tup] Ragyo and Shadowbeast

[tdown] CLU, King and Melanie

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203313: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:19:20 PM

[tdown]Melanie

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203314: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:32:24 PM

Aside from Bullman, MGD and falcon also approved of Melanie in PM. I'll let them speak for themselves though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 27th 2020 at 11:41:55 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#203315: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:52:40 PM

Howdy all. I am back from my break, which I took both to take care of midterms and to play SIMULACRA 2 unspoiled (seriously, I was not even aware there was a sequel).

As such, late [tup] to Ripple Man, Haruka Enokida, another Palpatine, and Ragyo Kiryuin herself.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#203316: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:54:20 PM

Being cruel and petty is not an inherent "invalidate mitigating factors" card. Unless it explicitly shows that Melanie's thoughts about Nick are just fanaticism or desire, and not actual care, it doesn't matter how much of a bitch she is. She still wouldn't be a CM.

We've been over this countless times. Being unjustified doesn't equate to having no mitigating factors.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Feb 27th 2020 at 2:58:04 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203318: Feb 28th 2020 at 12:44:25 AM

EDIT for context: Did some research, reread the entry (Federico's, for context), and I mistook the context. What appears to be a redeeming quality does not actually seem to be a redeeming quality—it's a matter of publicity for the villain concerned.

BTW, been looking through some old comic entries and the Diabolik entries caught my eye...I think I mistook a redeeming quality on one of them, but it also comes to mind neither of the entries currently listed were actually really formally approved. They were dragged up as unapproved entries from the YMMV page and slapped on essentially as they were. No thorough litigation, no discussion, no comment from anyone who had ever read the series.

Anyone mind me taking a closer look and maybe putting up some effortposts in the future? Both seem like keepers but the entries themselves aren't exactly the best:

  • Federico the Duke of Vallenberg: To try and take over the Kingdom of Benglait, he first created out of nowhere the terrorist organization Grey Ravens to provoke a civil war. He then married his ticket to the throne, Altea, and faked his death to avoid being identified as the leader of the Grey Ravens. Next, after Benglait became a republic without him being able to take over, he launched a series of terrorist attacks that nearly killed even Altea; after that bit him back in the ass as Diabolik and Ginko dismantled a branch of his organization, he launched other attacks, including a willingly failed one against Altea to justify both his faking his death and then his sudden return as motivated by his love for her and the desire to protect her while still trying to cause that civil war.
  • Mr. Logan: The CEO of a pharmaceutical industry, he purchased a Synthetic Plague and its vaccine. His ultimate plan was to release the first into the civilian population in order to wait for the panic and then "discover" the vaccine, all in the name of money. Logan stands in stark contrast to Diabolik and his more honorable methods of theft. He is willing to kill countless civilians with his manufactured plague, just to line his pockets and achieve fame from it.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 28th 2020 at 1:56:40 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203319: Feb 28th 2020 at 12:50:35 AM

edit: Okay now that I read it properly. It says he fakes it. My bad....

Also earlier in the entry it says he actually tried to kill her. Dude sounds assholish...

Edited by miraculous on Feb 28th 2020 at 1:06:19 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#203320: Feb 28th 2020 at 12:51:08 AM

EDIT: Yeah, they need proper E Ps

Edited by KingofNightmares on Feb 28th 2020 at 12:53:56 PM

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#203321: Feb 28th 2020 at 1:03:52 AM

I’m fine with Diabolik but just to let you know, they got over 800 issues according to Wikipedia.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#203322: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:16:22 AM

So regarding the new game Dreams that came out, how do we handle that in terms of this trope?

The game itself has no narrative therefore doesn't count, but what if people make good enough games with a set narrative in it? What does that count as?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#203323: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:20:37 AM

[up][up] TBH it's just a matter of finding the particular issues. The series mostly not being available in English is the biggest hurdle to that. There's one other guy off the bat probably worth a post that I've seen that invokes Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil (which seems to hold true in and out-of-universe) I'll probably start with if I can.

[up] Handle it as case-by-case, I suppose. If there's a "dream" with an actual narrative and the medium isn't actually hindering that, then I don't suppose there's any reason we can't talk about it.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 28th 2020 at 3:22:23 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#203324: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:36:07 AM

Alright, it’s the 28th so it’s time to discuss the Sonic Movie, which is actually pretty awesome and I definitely recommend it. Basically, to no one’s surprise, no one counts. Jim Carrey’s Robotnik is most certainly vile, I will say, he has no issues of wanting to dissect Sonic to get what he wants, he wants to kill Tom simply because he punched him as it reminded him of the time he was punched by a school bully, which Robotnik responded by, instead of reporting the bully to the principal, using his science to do something that causes the bully to eat his meals through a straw for a year, is absolutely cruel and mean towards his dragon, Agent Stone, and even told him that he wouldn’t miss him when he was gone at one point, is absolutely an complete Card-Carrying Villain, as show when he dances to Evil Grows in Me, and at the end of the film he mocks Tom for showing empathy towards Sonic’s Disney Death. Even Jim Carrey himself thought Robotnik was a vile being. However, most of his screen time and actions throughout the film are played for laughs, and, unlike some comedy C Ms like Bill Cipher, Robotnik himself is way too silly for this trope. Hell, even his so called Freudian excuse of being punched by bully is obviously played for laughs, though it does show how petty this version of Robotnik is. Also, while he is a Bad Boss to Agent Stone, he does admit he likes Stone’s lattes and when Robotnik gets banished to the Mushroom Planet by Sonic at the end of the film, he carves a stone based on Agent Stone, mainly because being stuck in a unpopulated mushroom placed place like that can have a major effect on one’s sanity. Besides Robotnik, there’s the Echidna tribe at the beginning of the film that supposedly kills Sonic’s parental figure, Longclaw, and forces Sonic to leave his home planet so they won’t be able to catch him for his powers, but none of them really stand in heinousness nor have any other traits other than wanting to catch Sonic for his powers, something that could be expanded in a sequel. Speaking of which, a sequel is hinted due to the post credits scenes with Robotnik, and in the second one, Tails himself, coming to earth to look for Sonic, possibly because of a crisis on Sonic’s Homeworld, and he needs Sonic’s help to stop it, and if a sequel does end up end up being made, I’ll greatly look forward to it. So yeah, no one in Movie counts, but there could be one in a possible future sequel, but nevertheless, I’m very glad that the Sonic Movie didn’t suck like everyone feared it would.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Feb 28th 2020 at 2:42:49 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#203325: Feb 28th 2020 at 2:37:00 AM

[tup] to Shadowbeast and Melaine Cole.


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