TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#203226: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:42:58 AM

Sky the preemptive aggression comes across as unnecessary, even with the tacked on apology in the same post.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203227: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:47:24 AM

I struck the original words, changed them to, "please don't start the discussion without me." I hope that change makes it sound less aggressive.

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#203228: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:48:02 AM

@miraculous

I vote cut Xerosic. He doesn't do anything unique for a Pokemon anime villain

Torture was done by Vicious, Dr. Yung, Alva and Kodai. And Kodai tortured a baby Pokemon to near death in front of his mother

Destruction is something that many villains in the movies do

Brainwashing was also done by Vicious, Team Plasma and Alva (and when Alva did it, it was very painful to the victims)

Even the attempted apocalypse is something that multiple villains have done, since not only did Lysandre also do it, but so did Cyrus, and I think Mewtwo also attempted to wipe out humanity, and didn't Zero also try to destroy the world?

Not to mention the other approved ones have something unique to say:

-Hunter J turning Pokemon to immobile statues to sell to a Pokemon trafficking service is unique. Not to mention her attempts to kill Ash where she also endangers many innocents in the process and even her own allies to her total apathy.

-Cyrus attempted to end the universe and have one to himself, even his own allies were going to die. Also, he ordered an entire island to be blown up just to kill one person

-Grings Kodai torturing a baby Pokemon to near death in front of his mother and saying he enjoyed it is his unique level of depravity

-Alva ripped out Magearna's heart and then forced it to destroy its own home while it was conscious, and he also brainwashed Pokemon with the Mega Wave in a painful manner

Xerosic doesn't have anything unique.

EDIT: Also, [tup] Raygo and [tdown] CLU

[down][down] Well, in general, but in this case I mean uniquely heinous for the Pokemon anime's standards

Edited by KingofNightmares on Feb 27th 2020 at 11:00:28 AM

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#203229: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:48:57 AM

[tup] Ragyo. Switching to abstain on Clu.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#203230: Feb 27th 2020 at 10:57:19 AM

I thought that a lack of uniqueness was okay as long as a villain was heinous enough.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203231: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:00:59 AM

Thing is, if they're not that unique, that probably means they're not heinous enough.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203232: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:08:22 AM

Yeah if a villain doesn't do anything that isn't topped by someone else in the work. They don't count. It's as simple as that

It's why say lots of villains try to end the world in buffy (I counted like fourteen) but angelus and caleb are the only keepers from that group who've tried it since they have aloy of uniquely heinous crimes on top of that.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 27th 2020 at 11:20:46 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#203233: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:23:46 AM

Uniqueness is part of being heinous. Two villains with the same resources who different things can both be monsters, but two with the same resources with the exact same crimes, unless they share a rapsheet, cannot.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203234: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:32:46 AM

I know I said I would stay out of it, but cut Xerosic.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#203235: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:48:19 AM

[up][up] That makes the point I was trying to make, but much better. Slight quibble though: If the two both have a crime that is still somewhat unique, but one has standards or loved ones, the other can still count.

Let's go to Criminal Minds. Vasher and Merva both have triple-digit kills, which a few other unsubs do, but it's still unique enough that they can both count, even while the other ones with triple-digit kills have various reasons for not counting.

Edited by ACW on Feb 27th 2020 at 2:49:27 PM

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#203236: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:52:01 AM

[tup] to Palpatine and Ragyo

Abstain on CLU

Gonna vote to cut Xerosic after reading everything

[down] No, meant to do a [tup] but my finger slipped

Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Feb 27th 2020 at 2:44:04 PM

I have no idea what I am doing
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203237: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:54:49 AM

[up] Does that mean you are voting down those two?

And on the subject of uniqueness being required, Supernatural is also a good example. That show has such a heinous standard. That you have to do something unique count.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 27th 2020 at 1:56:58 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#203238: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:56:58 AM

Going by the layout of the icons, I'm going to say that was intended to indicate upvotes.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203239: Feb 27th 2020 at 11:58:10 AM

Yeah thats happened to me sometimes too since there so close to each other.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 27th 2020 at 11:58:45 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#203240: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:00:21 PM

Hmm... does the fact that Xerosic commits all these crimes together count for anything? I think the fact that things like torture, brainwashing and attempted world destruction all appear on his rap sheet (which, IIRC, isn't the case for any other CM in the anime) should weigh in favor of him staying.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#203241: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:00:53 PM

[up][up] and [up][up][up] That is why I usually write the words out instead of using the icons.

Pure: As a side note. I wasn't trying to sound rude. I was just confused. Sorry if it come off as the wrong way.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 27th 2020 at 2:02:56 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#203242: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:02:39 PM

No worries man, just looked like you were seeking clarification without animosity.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203243: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:07:21 PM

You guys rember the torture and brainwashing were done under Lysandre's orders right. Their not Xerosic's crimes since hes just carrying out what he got told to do. They fall under his boss. The only thing legit unqiue he has is the attempted world ending on his own but thats not really unqiue for the anime if were being honest.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#203244: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:08:21 PM

[up][up][up][up] I don't really think it does. Alva basically does everything he does (except worse) minus the attempted world destruction, which Cyrus does but worse

[up] A point I didn't think of. Well, that just strengthens my opinion

Edited by KingofNightmares on Feb 27th 2020 at 12:13:26 PM

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#203245: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:08:28 PM

I’ll also switch to abstain on Clu unfortunately.

Been meaning to see the Tron movies for a while. Get to them at some point.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#203246: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:12:21 PM

To rephrase a point on Clu and why I feel he counts?

In the film itself, one can interpret Clu in different ways, perhaps he's just a genocidal perfectionist who destroys anything that doesn't meet his standards, or he is a very dark Well-Intentioned Extremist, or at the very least a slightly sympathetic figure based on Flynns words.

The expanded material takes the first interpretation and runs with it, so I sort of view him as a CM by consequence of that. It may not have been the direction the film wanted to go, but the other stuff is Still Canon. I can understand others perspectives though

[tup] to Ragyo and, forgot if I voted or not, [tup] to Palpy as well.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 27th 2020 at 10:13:46 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#203247: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:16:29 PM

But the EU doesn't negate the sympathetic moments in the film. It just expands on the dark side we already knew were there. It still presents Flynn with the moments of "I made a bad mistake and didn't guide you as I should have."

It expands on how bad CLU is, but it doesn't erase the mitigating qualities nor retcon what's present in the film proper

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 27th 2020 at 12:27:15 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#203248: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:41:12 PM

If it wasn't clear. I vote no on clu as his final words are a bit too sad for me to be okay with him up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#203249: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:51:11 PM

Definite [tup] to Ragyo. Switching to abstain on Clu

Yeah the majority of troopers have voted to cut Xerosic, including myself

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

Total posts: 326,048
Top