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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202902: Feb 24th 2020 at 10:42:18 AM

[up][up][up] To me, it sounded more like N already had a fic in mind.

[up][up] Yeah. It doesn't entirely sit right with me either, but unless you have a strong enough counterargument, it's a decision that has to be made.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202904: Feb 24th 2020 at 10:42:55 AM

[up] Could it really hurt to give him/her a chance to make their case?

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#202905: Feb 24th 2020 at 10:43:48 AM

Ok. Fine. Archmage. He committed genocide in the past.

Edit: [up] Him.

Edited by emperors on Feb 24th 2020 at 1:46:45 PM

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202906: Feb 24th 2020 at 10:44:38 AM

If it's offscreen, fat chance.

[down] On second thought, this is why I try to avoid discussing works which have already been discussed.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 24th 2020 at 1:49:18 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202907: Feb 24th 2020 at 10:45:08 AM

We've discussed the archmage thoroughly. He was ruled a nonkeeper

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202908: Feb 24th 2020 at 11:07:45 AM

Anyone count in the new locke and key show ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202909: Feb 24th 2020 at 11:11:14 AM

Dodge could well keep in the future, but not yet.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202910: Feb 24th 2020 at 11:13:34 AM

Well one for the future I guess.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#202911: Feb 24th 2020 at 11:20:31 AM

Any more votes on my candidate?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#202913: Feb 24th 2020 at 11:30:38 AM

Eh. I'm gonna [tdown] Phiro. Sacrificing children to prevent a deity from destroying the world, amongst all the crap many other characters do, seems a bit too high in standards for me. >__<

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202915: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:02:29 PM

[tdown]Phiro

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#202916: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:09:21 PM

Yes to Sawyer but no to Phiro. I think if anything he's a paranoid WIE and one of the minimal times I don't want to strangle a child murderer.

By the way, is it possible for a serial rapist pedophile to fail the heinous standard? I don't have anyone in mind but wasn't there someone who fits that criteria deemed not heinous enough?

Edited by Klavice on Feb 24th 2020 at 12:12:20 PM

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#202917: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:10:14 PM

[tdown] Phiro, assuming he isn't outright stated to be trying to save the world just to save himself.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#202919: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:11:51 PM

@Klavice I could believe that a candidate from Law & Order or some other police procedural show like that may not get approved, but I don't know of anyone specific that has been proposed and downvoted.

@Critica I'm not sure what you're talking about, Phiro has no connection to Gorfinax and doesn't even hear about its existence until right before her death.

Also Phiro is not the one sacrificing people to stop Gorfinax, that's Lord Earlan (also his children are actually sacrificed when they're in their 20s)

Edited by papyru30 on Feb 24th 2020 at 1:17:34 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202920: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:18:43 PM

Uh okay. Hold up so his kids are adults....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#202921: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:23:24 PM

Yes I didn't specify but his current son Julick, who is next to be sacrificed, is in his early 20s at the time of the campaign.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202923: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:33:24 PM

Abstain on Phyro.

As for Christian, I do have a handful of stories that I am checking out, but I am also studying for midterms, so it will take a while. Also, I do at least try to make sure the work has a substantial plot, so to speak- the fanfic!Lisbeth, for example, was found in my search to find a version of her that qualified, I admit, but I also made sure that the fic itself was not just about her and her evil acts. I had to reject some other fics I found for that reason. And I already threw out a few versions of Christian that just turned him into a cartoonishly evil maniac- I am looking for an intelligently-written Deconstruction Fic that realistically portrays Mr. Grey as an abuser.

And canon!Aerys was cut because he, in a later book, was said to have loved his children. Also, some Tropers brought up agency issues cause of his insanity.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 24th 2020 at 12:41:13 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#202924: Feb 24th 2020 at 12:51:44 PM

[up] If you could find a decently written deconstruction fic portraying Grey as an abuser, I’m would be gladly up for it. The fact the canon series treats Grey’s abuse as a good thing disgusts me greatly, and I could go on a huge rant about the Fifty Shades of Grey series, but the CM thread is NOT the place for me... but you all can PM about it if you want.

Oh and before I forget, [tup] to Sawyer.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009

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