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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202851: Feb 23rd 2020 at 5:27:00 PM

From what I've heard, the caring for his dead children thing was from a brief line in a supplementary book.

So I'm not sure its fair to say that its just a sliver of the character that doesn't show that redeeming quality.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 23rd 2020 at 3:33:10 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#202852: Feb 23rd 2020 at 6:45:01 PM

Yeah I mean this is a little different than most cases. You can't exactly say it has to directly subvert that redeeming quality if that redeeming quality didn't exist in the main work yet. And the author had no way of knowing if it yet.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 23rd 2020 at 8:46:15 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#202853: Feb 23rd 2020 at 7:03:14 PM

If that's the case I'm fine with it then.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202854: Feb 23rd 2020 at 8:24:36 PM

I think its fair to assume that the fanfic's author couldn't have known about the Mad King's disqualifying traits at the time the fanfic was written.

Keep Fanfic!Mad King.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 11:25:06 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202855: Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:06:08 PM

The fanfic is a different continuity/AU from the main series, so unless it was mentioned in the fanfic small details from canon shouldn't disqualify him imo

Keep Fanfic! Aerys

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:08:55 AM

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#202856: Feb 23rd 2020 at 10:22:22 PM

Keep fic! Mad King provided there are no disqualifying traits

Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Feb 23rd 2020 at 12:22:48 PM

I have no idea what I am doing
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#202857: Feb 23rd 2020 at 11:46:16 PM

Can we cut this part from Joffrey's entry?

A budding psychopath who believed being the king gave him the right to do whatever he liked, Joffrey's sadism was so great that he was well on his way to surpassing his predecessor as the next Mad King of the Seven Kingdoms.

Now that we cut Aerys, it doesn't make much sense.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202858: Feb 23rd 2020 at 11:49:08 PM

Why?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202859: Feb 23rd 2020 at 11:53:36 PM

I'd argue it fits a little better. Its a little weird for a CM entry to say how they surpass another CM as that gives the idea that they outheinous that person

Things are really about to get Fun around here
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202860: Feb 24th 2020 at 1:29:53 AM

[tup] keep Fanfic Mad King

Sorry, Cunning Man was there, I clearly should not be troping while tired.

Edit: [tup] Sawyer [down]

Edited by captainmarkle on Feb 24th 2020 at 3:01:53 AM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#202861: Feb 24th 2020 at 2:16:21 AM

What is the Work?

Lost and Found is a Total Drama fanfiction that is set in an Alternate Universe where Gwen and Trent get back together following their break up in Action.

When Gwen's mom and brother die in a house fire, she is forced to live with her father, Sawyer.

Who is Sawyer? What does he do?

Sawyer is the abusive father of Gwen who abandoned her when she was 3.

When Gwen's mom and brother are killed in a house fire, he is given custody of Gwen. He acts empathetic towards her at first, feigning sympathy to Gwen about how "devastated" he was to hear about her mom and brother's deaths. Along with spoiling her with gifts.

He reveals his true nature soon after. He starts emotionally abusing her, calling her fat and ugly before physically beating on her. Taking out a magazine with a picture of Trent on it, he threatens to kill Trent if he ever sees her with him.

He continued this process of routinuly beating on Gwen relentlessly day after day for weeks on end, which included cutting her. Giving her bruises, scars and cuts all throughout various parts of her body.

When Gwen runs away from home with Trent and they make a note explaining the abuse Gwen dealt with in hopes that the authorities would see and arrest Sawyer. Sawyer changes the writing on the note to make it look like Trent kidnapped and beat Gwen.

When Gwen and Trent go to the police station and tells a lady about the abuse. The lady locks Trent in a cell, and handcuffs Gwen. Taking her blonde wig off, the lady reveals herself to be Hilary (a lady working under Sawyer).

Hilary takes Gwen inside a car with a few of Sawyer's body guards in it and they drive back to Sawyer's house. While some of Sawyer's other guards take Trent, drive him to a far out location and beat him to near death under Sawyer's orders, stopping just short of killing him.

Once Gwen's home, Sawyer opens a switch hidden behind a painting with her mother and brother held captive inside a secret compartment, where it's revealed that Sawyer was the one who burned down their house, kidnapped the mother and brother, faked their deaths, and held them captive using them as hostages to keep Gwen in his clutches.

Sawyer continues where he left off from his abuse. After relentlessly beating on her once again. When he tells her to go to her room, he grabbed her arm when she turned he started yanking on her arm, dislocating and nearly breaking it.

In a diary log found in Sawyer's office it is revealed that the reason he has Gwen living with him so he can make money off her with having her doing photo shoots and the possibility of her winning the next TD season. It is also revealed that he planned on killing Trent to keep him from being a distraction for Gwen.

While in the middle of another one of Sawyer's abuse sessions on Gwen. When a maid stands up for Gwen, Sawyer relentlessly shoots the maid dead, and threatens to do the same to Gwen.

When Sawyer comes upon Trent while in Gwen's room, Sawyer and Trent get into a brutal fight. Sawyer eventually takes out his gun and demands Trent to move before pistol whipping him with it. Sawyer then holds the gun to Gwen's head, threatening to "spill her brains" if Trent moves.

A Heel–Face Turn'd Hilary breaks a flower pot over Sawyer's head, knocking him out. Hilary frees Gwen's mother and brother before Sawyer fires a shot. Pointing his gun, Sawyer demands Gwen to come to him, when she hesitates Sawyer shoots Hilary in the foot. When Trent tries to touch Gwen, Sawyer shoots Trent's hand. Sawyer aims his gun at Gwen's mother stating that Gwen turned into a "slut" by staying with her before attempting to shoot her. Hilary sneak attacks Sawyer and pushes him off the mom before he can shoot. Sawyer stabs Hilary in the chest with a glass shard.

Gwen grabs Sawyer's gun and points it at Sawyer. Sawyer uses Trent as a Human Shield taunting Gwen to shoot through her boyfriend. Gwen throws the gun to the ground while Sawyer taunts her for not having it in her to shoot him before Sawyer gets shot dead by Hilary, who also dies shortly after from her stab wounds.

When the authorities find everyone, it is revealed that he also ran a hidden drug operation.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. The closest to one is probably when he complained to the mother for not telling him he had a son but that's not redeeming at all seeing as he is willing to subject his son to torture and threaten to kill him.

Heinousness?

He regularly abuses his teenage daughter in some of the most horrific ways possible such as beating her, stabbing her, cutting her, throwing her down a flight of stairs, etc. Not to mention his brutal murder attempt on her toward the end such as threatening to "spill her brains".

Aside from that, he burned down his own family's house, faked their deaths, kidnapped them, held them captive, and is implied to had tortured them to use them as hostages to keep Gwen in his clutches.

Not to mention killing a maid and causing the death of Hilary. His murder attempts on Trent were also pretty cruel, especially when he used him as a Human Shield.

Is it a Dark Fic?

No. He was cut once but I got to read the story in full and yeah it isn't a dark fic or anything. It has some explicit violence and some swears but it has a very cohesive plot and we see the Gwen x Trent ship develop throughout the story as they grow closer as they deal with this tragedy.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202867: Feb 24th 2020 at 6:09:12 AM

My Cassandra Palmer example.

Who is Jonathan ?

The series most prolific recurring villain (appearing in 8 novels), Jonathan is the most powerful sorcerer alive at a thousand years old. To keep himself alive, Jonathan uses torture magic on vampires, torturing them for days-weeks to break them and funneling their pain to rejuvenate himself. Jonathan is one of the leaders of black circle (the main antagonistic faction of the series). Black circle are servants of the various gods who wish to rise again and black circle helps them through sacrifices in return for power. with jonahthan's job being to accquire magical objects and people to help them.

Right from the top. Saddle up people:

  • Touch the Dark and Claimed by Shadow: Jonathan tries to kidnap Cassandra in order to to use the pythia power in order to allow Apollo to return to earth. Years ago, Johnathon was part of the Inquisition and tortured the human lover of the vampire Louis cesare to death.
  • Midnight's Daughter: Jonathan along with count Dracula plans to help the evil king of the blue fey Aienslnn murder the pregnant fiance of the son of he king caedmon of the golden fey. By ensuring caedmon has no heirs it will launch a civil war when a succession crisis looms which would cause the fey to once again war with each which could kill thousands, something they haven't done since the time of king Arthur. The plan is to allow the blue fey king to take over whose a staunch Fundamentalist in favour of the gods compared to caedmon who despite being implied to be zeus' son is staunchly agsint their return and the enslavement and horror they;d unleash. An army that apollo/ares or zeus could use to fully put humanity and demonkind under foot. Anyway Jonathan captures louis cesare and has him tortured with a hot poker for hours. Bringing him to deaths door in terms of pain and then bringing him back, and then repeating the process over and over again. Anyway Dorina and Mircea save the fiance and louise cesare and destroy Dracula but Johnathan gets away.
  • Fury's Kiss: Dorina whose Louise cesare's mate plans to get revenge on Johnathan for what he did to him. Johnathan was badly damaged during the fight and has now become a lich like person while he tries to recioparte. He teams up with a corrupt member of the ruling body of the vampire senate and unleashes a horde of zombie vampires of vampires they killed and then brought back as zombies to destroy the ruling council allowing the war to be won. He gets stopped and it goes underground for a few years to recuperate.
  • Dragon's Claw and Siren's song: Jonathan creates a gun which can kill vampires and uses it to kill dozens of vampires to create his zombie vampires. He hires a vampire to start a gang with with a kinda friend of Dorina in order serve as a distraction while mind controlling hundred's of mages as the mooks. Johnthan or at least the guys who work for him in this book under his orders, reveal they intend to crash the entirety of the magical floating city of Hong Kong that floats above actual hong kong into Hong Kong, killing the entire population which is millions last time I checked. Since Hong Kong is on a ley line it will generate An energy tsunami wiping out anything on said ley lines including the various vampire senates. Paving the way to total victory in the war against the gods in favor of black circle and aienslann and his fundamentalist fey faction. Pritkin and Dorina are able to stop him.
  • Brave the tempest: Jonathan disovers a book in the library of aienslann which features the true names of the ancient horrors. During the war between the titans and the olypmians. Both sides experimted with mating with various supernatural creatures in order to create powerful soldiers. Echidna, mother of monsters mated with various demons across hell (which in this universe is less a pit and more an entire universe filled with thosuands of inhbaited dimensions. Earth is the highest level of hell with fearie being the lowest level of heaven) and birthed the ancient horrors, the most evil and powerful demons in existence and were such classics like Lamathsu, Pazzuzu and Asmoedus to name a few. The horrors are feared even by other demons and were sealed away by Artemis. Jonthan realises with the book he can control and realse them. Using them as an army he plans to take control of the demon army which would stop the main source of opposition and allow him a way to conuer faerie and earth. Unfortunately he loses it and has to get it back, in the meantime he summons two of the ones whose unsealing methods he already knows Kulullû (this is an actual demon from mythology I discovered...) and evil santa to attack the demon and vampire army defending. The book ends up getting destroyed which means he know is stuck with only a few dozen names of the ancient horrors rather the thousand plus that was in it. So he goes back to black circle and Aiensalln using the realsed horrors as their new soliders. Anyway in the meantime Jonathan teams up with an old enemy of cassandra named Jo who was killed during the ares stuff and has suck around as a ghost. In return for helping him defeat cassandra, he gives her a magical boon to create a ghost army in the thousands to destroy casse which is stoppped but not before she gained some of the time travel power of cassie
  • Shatter the earth: Its revaled that Jonahatn gains his powers through a sick methods. He chains the ghosts of people into himself where they appear as faces under his skin.../while being aware the entire time. He does this to Jo in order to gain time travel powers while creepily calling her his new pet.. and attemtping to pet her head which can protrude from his torso while she is trying to flinch away out of fear and pain v(what can I say hes a subtle villain...). He kills a librarian in the vampire senate in order to gain the lover's knot spell which is a ay that cassaandra, mircea and pritkin can use to perhaps vanquish any opponent while boasting on how hes going to turn cassandra into another addition on himself, another "pet" like Jo became. Anyway during the orginal timeline in this book, aienslanna nd the entire army fort the gods was deafted in a sneak attack. Jonathan doesnt like that and uses time travel to have aienslann and him law a trap while laughing as his forces are about to slaughter them. Luckily, Cassandra's ghost friedn Billy since ghosts can go coperal in Faerie scarcices himself to destroy Joanthan. His soul then hitches a ride to a new bodie which is captured by the good guys.

In his cell wall

It seemed to annoy Jonathan. “To what do I owe this pleasure?” he asked, more sharply. And then winced when the guard lost patience and cuffed him upside the head.

I thought it showed remarkable restraint, considering how many of the man’s friends Jonathan was directly responsible for getting killed, but the mad mage didn’t seem to see it that way. He came offthe bed, snarling, and was only prevented from doing any damage by the chains he wore.

“I’m going to get out of here,” he told me. “I’m going to come after you. I meant what I said—I’ll destroy that damned court, and the fucking demon spawn you sleep with, and that vampire, too—”

“We need a medic,” the so far silent guard said, into a mirror on the wall. “He’s having another fit—”

“I’m not having a fit!” Jonathan snapped, and then he looked back at me. “I’m telling you what will happen.”

“No,” I said. “It won’t.”

“And why is that?”

“Because the little goddess is savage sometimes,” I whispered, quoting his own words back to him. I saw his eyes widen with understanding, right before my hand caught his throat.

But not for long.

And then I shifted

she chokes him to death and so ends Jonthan.

Freudian Excuse ?

Not really. It's mentioned that his lust for more and more magic has turned him into an addict whose now constantly looking for his next fix. Thing is he's only like that because he was an evil torturing douche who wanted to live forever so kept taking more ans more power for himself.

Other redeeming qualities ?

Nope. Hes an egomaniac whose only it for the power. Hes noted to have no true loyalty to anyone as demonstrated with jo. Hes also the worst servant of the gods In the series by a long mile.

Heinous standard ?

He's no ommicidal maniac like Ares or Apollo but he doesn't need to be one. For his tier. Hes easily the worst villain their. He is behind Almost a thousand years of horrific torture, tries to kill millions , start a vicious cival war by trying to killing a pregnant woman, unleash a demon army and literally is a walking And I Must Scream for people and is chocked full of personal atrocities. Easily the worst of the minions of the Gods

Edited by miraculous on Feb 24th 2020 at 6:12:37 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202869: Feb 24th 2020 at 6:21:54 AM

Yes to Johnathan and Sawyer both

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202870: Feb 24th 2020 at 6:26:24 AM

[tup]Sawyer

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#202873: Feb 24th 2020 at 6:49:59 AM

[tup] Sawyer and Jonathan.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202875: Feb 24th 2020 at 7:15:39 AM

[tup] Sawyer. The issue is not necessarily if the work is a Dark Fic, but if it has a substantial plot. Monster Chronicles is a dark fic- it outright says so on the monster page- but Cedric got up because the story had enough meat.

Also, [tup] Johnathan.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 24th 2020 at 7:18:46 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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