During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Has anyone suggested Sionis or Zsasz from Birds of Prey (2020) already? The whole scene where they cut peoples faces off, possibly including their innocent daughter, legit disturbed me.
I have been meaning to get to this for some time.
The Division is a third person shooter and role playing game made by Ubisoft and released in 2016. I have played it last year, so I had to seek out videos and other research to make sure I didn't forget anything. I did not play the second game. I plan too when I get my PS 4 fixed, but that's another story.
In the first game a deadly virus has brought New York City to its knees and is pushes society to it's breaking point. To contain and investigate the crisis, The Strategic Homeland Division, better known as "The Division", send multiple agents to get to the bottom of this. There are three main enemy factions in the game; The Last Man Battalion, a Private Military organization that was sent to New York to protect Wall Streets assets, before going about their own to create their own militant state to "restore order"; you've got The Cleaners, a team of WIE arsonist sanitation workers who seek to eradicate the virus by burning it and the infected. And finally, there's the worse of the factions, the Rikers, lead by the ruthless criminal Larae Barrett.
Who is Barrett ? What does she do ?
Before becoming the leader of the Rikers, Larae Barrett was a woman who was sent to Rikers Island for the murder of two police officers, shooting them execution style. At one point she was in prison, a woman tried to shank her with a pen, and lived long enough for Barrett to stab her through the eye and cheek. When the outbreak struck, Barrett manages to rally all the murderers and rapists in Rikers behind her, and managed to seduce an administrator in order to get a barge so that they can escape. After getting the Barge, Barrett slits the administrator's throat and leads her army of convicts to further tear New York apart.
From there ? The aptly dubbed Rikers go on an Eat the Rich and Rape, Pillage, and Burn across the city, eventually getting the attention of other criminals and gangs. From that point, the Rikers make a game of hunting and brutally murdering police officers; all the while Barrett gives speeches about not stopping there, and taking "revenge" against other authorty figures from judges to child protective services. During one said speech she tortures some poor sap. In another grand speech, she rants to her followers about how they will take New York and rule like kings, while torturing and murdering one of her lackies for complaining too much. At another point she sets a rival gang leader on fire to show she gives no second chances. The Riker's cause all kings of misery, such as destroy a power plant to deny New York light and warmth, or discuss forcing cops and other legal officials to fight in gladiatorial matches to the death.
As the Agent (Player) investigates what the Rikers have been up too, we see they turns a police station full of hostages into their personal torture dungeon, filled with the aftermath of a brutal massacre. The Agent soon confronts Barrett during a raid of the Lexington Event Center, which Barrett has converted to the Rikers castle, where they keep numerous hostages to torture and humiliate; ranging from forcing two hostages to take shots of bleach, or forcing someone to play on a piano or wind up dead like a guitar player. During the raid, the player engages and eventually kills Barrett in the ensuing fight.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?
She is an unrepentant psychopath, encouraging sadism and wanton destruction among her followers. That is the beginning and ending of her character. She and the other Rikers claim to be motivated by "revenge", but revenge for what ? They are unrepentant criminals out to rip the city apart, and a lot of the time they are going after those who previously punished them. Our introduction to Barrett is how she killed two police officers in cold blood, with Blatant Lies of self defense and thinks of it like a fond memory.
This goes in contrast to the LMB leader Charles Bliss, who at least has a sense of honor and at the very least is trying to restore "order" to the city; or the Cleaners leader Joe Ferro, whose trying to burn the virus out of his city, and loved his wife. The Rikers simply want to cause more misery and are implied to be the straw that broke New York's back.
Oddly enough she tries to play the victim card about being "another black body on the pile" during her fight with the player. This is a laughable attempt on her part since she has shown to be little more than a sadistic psycho throughout all her appearances, with no attempt to humanize her or make her sympathetic. Really this goes in hand with the above mentioned "revenge" claims the Rikers all declare.
Heinous Standard
Pretty jacked, I'll admit.
You've got the Predecessor Villain Gordon Amherst, a Thanos thinking eco-terrorist who created the virus to cull humanity; Aaron Keener, who is shaping up to the the ultimate villain of the series, who plans on recreating the virus for his own reasons (he doesn't count for multiple reasons, and is set to return in the upcoming Warlords of New York).
As for the other factions, you've got the Cleaner's who believe the best way to fight the virus is to commit arson and burn anyone suspected of carrying the virus; The Last Man Battalion start a fascist martial law to try to keep the city in order, killing everyone in line.
And then there's the Riker's who make it a point to cause as much mayhem and misery as possible. In addition to killing countless cops, officials and innocent people in the midst of the city's collapse, being needlessly cruel and sadistic for the sake of it, and Barrett is the one leading and encouraging this.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."For Star Wars, Cult Encounters and Supernatural Encounters, at Typhojem’s entry, has its own page.
to Mephistopheles, Dante, and Barrett.
Has Amherst ever been EP’d? Because I have seen a play through of this game a while ago and he seems like a [1] esque keep.
I have no idea what I am doingI know many times when I visit this thread I try to reopen closed cases, but what exactly was the reason for younger Princess Shroob being cut from Mario? We've had villains with "Silly" names count before and she's definitely got a personality despite not speaking English and does more to the Mushroom Kingdom than Cackletta, Antasma or Bowser. She's not Always Chaotic Evil because again she has a personality, and doesn't fail the heinous standard because she orders the deaths of various characters and treating the Toads to an And I Must Scream fate among other things like having the Yoshis be cannibalized by Yoob and turned into Shroobs. Maybe I'm reading too deep into this but she certainly seemed like one of the worst Mario villains this side of Dimentio and Dark Moon and beyond King Boo. I just thought her case was closed too quickly and we didn't actually analyze the game too well. A lot of people thought "ha ha, she's got a silly name she can't possibly count" but I feel I could give her a better Effort post provided she hasn't already been approved. And alien race leaders getting approved isn't anything new, the Aparoid Queen for example.
Also yes to Mephisto, Dante and Barrett.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 22nd 2020 at 8:36:30 AM
Where'd you get the idea people voted her down because her name was silly?
Here's the last discussion
surrounding her, and the biggest concerns were about moral agency and heinousness issues, as well as whether she cared for her sister or not. And it was a pretty divisive vote, if I recall.
I think she easily passes the heinous standard, but other factors made me abstain back then. If you feel the thread missed something back then, feel free to do another EP.
If you say so Fried... Thanks for the input. I mean to be fair, we never thought Ardos was going to be approved either as the guy only has a few scenes. I won't bring her up if you guys don't want me too though.
Also is Danganronpa V3 on the Wait and See thing for a sequel that discusses Team DR's motivations? Somehow I don't think we're getting a sequel... And considering they might be behind Junko Enoshima too, might be worth discussing in the event of more information.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 22nd 2020 at 9:11:12 AM
Ming, Dante and Barrett
What is the work? Nightmares on Elm Street is a short comic book adaptation of, you guessed it, A Nightmare on Elm Street. Serving as an Interquel between The Dream Child and The Final Nightmare, Nightmares explores two different story arcs: The misadventures of Ripperologist
Cybil and the long-awaited return of two Elm Street veterans, Nancy Thompson
and Alice Johnson
. After Nancy's death, Kristen Parker
's powers inadvertently elevated her spirit to Dreamwalker status, now she must fufill her role as Freddy's Good Counterpart to protect her friends once again. Do I even need to say who's the candidate?
Who is he? Surprise! It's Freddy Krueger! Still haunting the dreams of Springwood after five movies and many murders, Freedy sets his eyes on Nancy's old roommate, Cybil, brutally killing her friend and husband in the process, Priscilla and James respectively, revealing his intentions to mask James's death as a "freak printing accident" that would subsequently cause Cybil to commit suicide, with the visual implication that he murdered Priscilla's girlfriend just to Kick the Dog. Following Alice's return to Springwood, Freddy comes up with a plan to invade the real world and continue his neverending killing spree, manipulating his unstable girlfriend, Devonne, to take on the mantle of Springwood Killer and murder dozens of underaged victims with a hammer on his behalf, using her in a new wave of murders by proxy for him to claim more souls, all while taking advantage of Neil Gordon
's coma to occasionally torture him even with Nancy's protection, and again it's implied that Freddy is intentionally stopping him from waking up.
Deciding to use Alice's psychic son, Jacob
, as a bridge to wreak havoc once again, Freddy tries to manipulate him with an avatar of Dan, Jacob's deceased father and one of his victims, promising to bring him back to life on the condition that Jacob sends him back to Springwood and gives him a chance to have a "hot time in the old town tonight". Ordering Devonne to kill Jacob's mother and anyone with her, Freddy instructs her to "use a bigger hammer", which only leads to Devonne shooting up Mercy Hospital. After entering the Dream World, Alice finds a crucifix that reminds her of Amanda, Freddy's mother, and how she was his prey as well. The Dream Warriors also return to help in the fight against Freddy, turns out not all of Freddy's victims just cease to exist, some just stay stuck in the Dream World. In their final confrontation, Freddy (obviously) betrays Devonne and abandons her to die, mockingly stating "Think I care, bitch? You played your part". The heroes succeed in defeating Freddy, Nancy manages to release her father's spirit from Freddy's grasp, and Neil sacrifices himself to stay with Nancy in the Dream World, allowing Dan's spirit to inhabit his body and return to his family.
Mitigating Factors? Nope, Freddy is said to be "pure evil" and nothing more.
Heinous? It's literally Freddy Krueger.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:13:34 PM
Mc Guire, Rat'Lar, Ming, Mephistopheles, Damte, Barrett and Freddy
Barrett and Freddy.
@Klavice: If you really want to EP Princess Shroob and really believe you can get her to count, I’d say give it a shot. As the guy who did the original Princess Shroob, still felt that she should have qualified, I would support you if you decide to do it. We’ll also had some candidates that were downvoted before only to get approved later on
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 22nd 2020 at 7:34:02 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffYes to the Krueger, the Mings, Adam, the BOP villains, Barrett, Dante, Rat'Lar and Mephisto.
I have got another Old Man Logan proposal for you all, this one is about Old Man Quill, featuring Peter Quill, who escaped the carnage of the superhero slaughter on Earth, but things have not been going well in space:
Who are Galactus and Matriarch? What have they done?
Galactus, devourer of worlds is quite different in this universe. He still is a demigod that needs to consume planets to survive, but in this universe, he is also the dark god of the Church of Universal Truth. The Church is led by the Matriarch, a zealot who serves her dark god by finding planets for him to consume. Galactus found the Silver Surfer and took back the power cosmic, leaving Silver Surfer a vegetable in the process. With this new power cosmic, Galactus created a machine that lets him mind control others, expanding the Church by enslaving the minds of others, though the Matriarch keeps her free will. With this device, Galactus enslaves the Shi'ar Imperial Guard and turns them into his zealots, with the Matriarch directing the efforts of these mind controlled puppets.
Quill defends a planet from the Church, but the Matriarch reveals this was a distraction, Galactus devoured the planet of Spartax, where Quill's family lived and left the mark of the Church on the planet. The rest of the Guardians die in the process, only Quill survives. Quill escapes, heading to Earth to find the Ultimate Nullifier, the Matriarch sends the Imperial guard after him, to destroy the Ultimate Nullifier.
The Matriarch also directs her forces to attack the planet Xander, to prevent the Nova Corp from stopping them. The Nova Corp drives the Church off, however, the Church summons Galactus, who devours the planet. The Matriarch discovers all the heroes of Earth have died and tells her dark god the news, with Galactus planning to go to Earth to devour it.
Anyway, Quill tries to get the Ultimate Nullifier, but Dr. Doom destroys it, thinking he will use it to foil his plans to conquer the world and extend his empire. Galactus and the Church arrive and easily defeat Doom's forces. Galactus dismiss Quill as a threat and prepares to devour Earth. But Quill loads the Time Stone into a revolver and shoots Galactus in the head, causing his brain to removed from time, killing him. The Matriarch freaks out and when one of her crew falls out of Galactus' trance, she kills him and orders her forces to retreat, fearing that most of them will turn against her now that they are no longer controlled by Galactus.
Are they heinous by standards of the story?
They are the most powerful villains in this universe and easily the most heinous, with billions of deaths on their heads and trying to add Earth to the body count.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
I do not think there is much with the Matriarch, she serves Galactus willingly, her zealotry towards Galactus is not redeeming, IMO, it just makes her a Psycho Supporter, she has a holier than thou attitude where she offers prayers to enemies and say that her fallen solders will have their souls at rest, but her prayers are condescending and she does not give a second thought to those who die under her command (they also brainwashed zombies that she sends to their doom).
Galactus as usual needs to devour planets to survive, but he is far crueler and megalomaniacal here than usual. He turned Silver Surfer into a vegetable, he targets planets that can defy him or pose a threat to the Church's power base, puts his mark on planet's he has destroyed, mind-controlled millions of people into being his slaves, etc.
Final Vercit?
I think the Matriarch is the easier keeper of the 2, but Galactus is worth considering, given he lacks a lot of the usual redeeming traits he has in the 616 universes and seems far more cruel than usual.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 22nd 2020 at 10:08:27 AM

to Dante
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff