During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh okay.
Funny another version of drac I know off actually hates his brother Mircea. Though his fe is pretty strong and he's probably just fails the heinous standard.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I just hate those unexpected redeeming qualities. Had more than a few seemingly solid keepers, only to find out they either had a genuinely messed-up life and/or actually care about someone. Killing Ground and Ghostland were especially frustrating in the regard, even if I love the latter.
Edited by Stellarvore on Feb 22nd 2020 at 1:54:18 PM
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: The Candy Truck Woman sobs after the Fat Man is shot dead.
What about the Fat Man though?
After reading this issue and thinking it over, I decided to give it a shot
What's the work?
Superman vs. Muhammad Ali
is one of the "celebrity meets superhero" one-shots, released in 1978, which was rereleased in 2010 in a deluxe edition. Here we have Superman join forces with famous boxer Muhammad Ali, as they try to save the Earth from a Scrubb threat.
My candidate is the Emperor of Scrubb Rat'Lar.
Who is Rat'Lar?
An Emperor of honorable warrior species of Scrubbs, Rat'Lar saw humanity and Earth as a threat to himself and his Empire, thus he convinces his species that humanity are savages and warlike creatures, who need to be "controlled". Leading his fleet to Earth, Rat'Lar arrives
at the planet and strikes Lois, leading Ali to knock him down
, after he hits him too. As Superman arrives there too, Rat'Lar proposes
a match
between the Earth's greatest champion and his own champion. After ordering
a strike on St. Louis (due to the fact that Ali and Superman dared to lay their hands on him), an attack which Superman barely prevented by diving
missiles into the ocean and stopping
a giant wave, which was created from explosion, Rat'Lar destroys
one uninhabited island, just to show Superman the power of his fleet. Giving an ultimatum
, either Superman and Ali prepare for a match in a 24 hours and decide which one of them will be Earth's champion and fight his champion or he destroys the Earth with his fleet, Rat'Lar leaves to his ship. Superman was able to use technology in his Fortress of Solitude to create some sort of filed, where one minute is like an hour outside and asks Ali to teach him the art of box. As Earth's government launched their nukes in hopes of driving back the Scrubbs (which failed to even scratch the armada), Rat'Lar threatens
them with death and detect Superman's little time field and orders
his robots to retrieve Superman And Ali immediately (even through there was at least half a day left). As he gather all species to watch their match, Rat'Lar presented
Superman and Ali his champion and was furious
when they were not impressed. The first match was between Superman and Ali (Rat'Lar put his ships closer to a Red Sun, so that Superman would be more "equal" to everyone else) to determine which one of them will fight Scrubb champion. When Ali won and wounded Superman was hospitalized to Earth seemingly (in reality Superman switched places with Ali cornerman Bundini Brown and wear the mask, so he could remain on Scrubb ship and determine their weak spots), Rat'Lar
ordered to ship him to Earth on a weak and old escape pod ("a loser ship for a loser" as he said
), while his soldiers saluted Superman in secret, something which is explicitly said would make Rat'Lar furious.
As the match between Scrubb champion and Ali starts (before which Rat'Lar forces
Ali to try to predict
when he thinks he's going to win), Rat'Lar orders his armada to fly to Earth for preparation of firing upon it anyway. Superman managed to speak through communication
to the leader of that armada and pretended to be Rat'Lar to order armada to return. Rat'Lar sended them back ofcourse, but it did give Superman extra time to gather more information. As Ali fights the Scrubb champion, he starts to lose, leading Rat'Lar to offer an alternative
to his destruction of Earth, humanity must become eternal slaves of Scrubbs if they want to survive. Ali refuses and beats Scrubb champion, leading
to furious Rat'Lar to order his armada
to attack the Earth anyway. Superman fights the armada and disables half of it, but they beat him in the end. As Rat'Lar orders the remainder of Armada to fly to Earth, Scrubb champion breaks his throne
and his soldiers turn on him
, with Scrubb champion saying that Rat'Lar proved to be a lying coward, as they did not saw any savagery in humans, and that he brought shame to Scrubb's name through the galaxy. This leads to Scrubbs leaving in peace and sending
Superman, Ali and humans, who watched the match to Earth safely, as Rat'Lar is arrested and removed from his position.
Heinousness?
For an one shot villain of this comic, who never appeared anywhere again, I think his scheme of destroying all life on Earth or enslaving them (if Ali agreed to his terms) is bad enough I think. Especially when it's driven by sheer pettiness and cowardness.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. His claim of "Removing the Earth as a threat to the galaxy" falls kinda flat, considering that he planned to enslave them and that he had to lie about all humanity's savagery to his species, because he literally didn't have any proof (nor there is an evidence that he encountered humans before), leading to conclusion that he only feared that humanity might surpass him in power in the future (which is what most of his speeches concentrate at) and pose a threat specifically to him, he was perfectly willing
to blow up his people for slightest offense and acts more like paranoid tyrant, who is afraid that somebody might become stronger than him, which is how comic frames him and his "motives". Hell, Scrubbs themselves turned on him as soon as they saw Ali and Superman being "honorable warriors and not savages" and were disgusted by his decision to follow back on his words and destroy Earth anyway.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 22nd 2020 at 12:49:39 PM
Now, going off this sorta joint with Scraggle?
in 1988, DC comics published a maxi-series for Flash Gordon, where Flash and love interest Dale Arden are taken to the planet Mongo after a few mishaps. Drawn and written by the legendary Dan Jurgens, Flash runs afoul of Mongo's horrific despot. You know him, you hate him, it's the dark lord himself: Ming the Merciless.
Who is Ming?
A man described as ruling based on Mein Kampf and other totalitarian texts, Ming took over Mongo and oppresses the people in a nightmarish dictatorship. People are killed, enslaved and there's a standing rule Ming may exercise the right of First Night on any woman he desires. When introduced, Ming has decided a farmer's tribute is insufficient and demands he be allowed to bed the man's wife before he does. The man furiously rebukes this and Ming orders him executed. When reminded the laws require a marriage first, Ming sneers to marry her to the man's corpse and the send her to him.
Ming centers in on Dale, as he's never had a woman from earth and claims he'll take her...before throwing Flash in an arena above a boiling pit. When Flash survives the challenges, Ming leaves him to melt. When Dale protests, Ming coldly responds that everything on Mongo bows to his will and he is god there. Flash escapes, dazzling Ming's daughter Aura....before turning his attention to dale, deciding he likes how 'feisty' she is and how she'll make good sport, before trying to brainwash her into being his submissive concubine.
Aura finds and hides Flash, who escapes to ally with the Pa Qua, a group of rebels. Adventures lead to Flash and team going to an underwater city with another race on Mongo....oh, and just FYI? Aura at this point gets on Ming's nerves...and Ming reveals he fed her elder brother to giant desert worms. Cuz he's Ming....
Now, to demonstrate his control over the ones underwater, Ming gives the leader, Kala, his blade and demands he kill his son. When the poor guy can't do it? Ming kills the child himself because "No wish of mine ever goes unfulfilled!" When Flash and the others flee the city, Ming has it annihilated, with countless innocents killed there as awarning to others to give him Flash.
Ming also gets another earth man, Hans Zarkov, and forces him to work for Ming, to design him a ship capable of reaching other worlds so Ming may spread his despotic rule elsewhere. He forces Zarkov to assist by poisoning him, watching him suffer and then giving him an antidote...which he needs constant doses of. Now, Flash ends up on the city of Prince Vulta and the hawk people, which floats. They want to bargain for more fuel to stay aloft. Ming....reneges and is willing to simply let them plummet while trying to evacuate himself. In this? Flash also sees Ming starves the people of Mongo and when they riot for food, they are shot en masse.
Flash rallies the people of Mongo to rebellion, after several issues of adventure, ending in a massive battle. Flash is captured and Ming decides to have him horrifically tortured, while plotting to trap and annihilate the rebellion....and when he learns Aura is helping the good guys, he tries to have her blown up as well.
Flash returns to face Ming in a last duel....with a sword fight. And Flash and Ming take it to the rooftops. Flash declares Ming's rule is over and throws him off the building. Ming hangs on for dear life and for the first time, he begs Flash to help him. Flash, done with Ming, stabs Ming's sword into the building....saying if Ming can climb it, he can live. Ming grabs the blade...but it's so sharp it cuts his wrists. Unable to hang on, he falls hundreds of stories, screaming all the way down.
Heinousness?
Only major villain, sets it and Ming? Runs Mongo like a concentration camp. Serial rape, torture of millions, massacres and he wants to do this to earth and more worlds. No, Ming sees the standard, burns it alive and dances in the ashes.
Mitigating Qualities?
He's Ming. Ming the Merciless. No, he has none. He does want Aura back at one point, but because he's a possession. He threatens her life, tries to kill her and killed another siblings. He treats his servants as expendable. At one point, one of his top men is left tied up by the heroes and Ming says the man is a fool, vaporizes him and claims fools are not fit to serve him. So yeah, Ming has nothing good to him whatsoever.
Conclusion?
A happy yes to Ming the Merciless.
@Stella Something similar happened to me with the movie Experiment In Terror. The movies villain, a rapist murdering blackmailing bank robber, turns out to love his girlfriend and her kid. I would be more ok with this if they did anything with it isntead of using one of his gifts as a means to find his hideout. Still a good movie thought.
Also, on the Giant Robo ymmv page, a character called Johnny Soccor From GR:Giant Robo was added under the other C Ms, and based on the fact that the write up doesn’t appear in the Anime/Manga section, nor can I find an EP, I don’t think he was approved.
to Mcguire, Rat’Lar, and of course Ming
Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Feb 22nd 2020 at 4:04:26 AM
I have no idea what I am doing
to '88 Ming. I have an issue of Flash Gordon (1988) but not the whole thing, and I really wanna read Flash Gordon: Zeitgeist!
Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:05:31 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Ming the Merciless
Kinda curious could ming count in the original film serials and comic strip. Since we seem to be adding quite a few versions of the dude and those are the originals
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Which Vlad dracula was this from ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."