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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#202576: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:23:48 AM

[tup] Knockoff Jinmen

It's Spooky Month!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#202577: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:28:10 AM

[tup] to the turtle.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#202578: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:28:46 AM

[tup]Jinmen.

Also, slight rewrite for one of my proposals last year, specifically Kringle's Morgo, mainly to make one of his nastier moments (attempting to massacre the entire elf population in Elvenwald) a bit clearer.

Original.

  • Complete Monster: Morgo is the rapacious King of the Goblins who seeks to summon the ancient beast Grunding in order to take over the world. Having murdered Kringle's father in the past, he is haunted by a prophecy that a child will rid the world of goblins, and thus has hundreds of children abducted and made into slaves, feeding off of their fear. Having his underlings pillage human settlements of their belongings, he builds a massive War Dragon for Grunding to possess, trapping the captured children within it, and has Elvenwald, home of the elves, destroyed. Even when defeated, he vows to return every Long Night to haunt the world's children until he has finally claimed the Earth.

Rewrite.

  • Kringle: Morgo is the rapacious King of the Goblins who seeks to summon the ancient beast Grunding in order to take over the world. Regularly pillaging the human settlements of their belongings, Morgo murders Kringle's father when he attempts to protect two elves from him. Haunted by a prophecy that a child will rid the world of goblins, Morgo has hundreds of children abducted and made into slaves, feeding off of their fear. Building a massive War Dragon for Grunding to possess, trapping the captured children within it, Morgo leads his forces in an attempted slaughter of the elves at Elvenwald, only foiled by Kringle's intervention. Even when defeated, he vows to return every Long Night to haunt the world's children until he has finally claimed the Earth.

Edited by Clown-Face on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:29:07 AM

Why so serious?
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202579: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:37:33 AM

[tup] to not-Jinmen. Despite being a minor villain, he is right up there with Zenon and the Asukas (Ryo and anime!Lan) on my list of fav Devilman villains. I wonder what are the other vilest minor villain CMs we have.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:42:34 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202580: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:42:25 AM

[tup]Jinmen in all but name

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202581: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:45:27 AM

Speaking of which, is Demon Lord Dante part of the universe? The canonicity of Mao Dante within the larger universe is wonky, but I am pretty sure it is, at least, an Alternate Continuity, especially given the allusions to it in Devilman Grimore. As such, I think it should be listed on the page.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202583: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:49:43 AM

[up][up]All i know about Demon Lord Dante connection with Devilman is that Demon Lord Dante was (by Nagai's words) a "proto-Devilman" thing, from which he draw inspirations for Devilman.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202584: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:51:51 AM

[up][up][up] I wouldn't be opposed to that. Though according to Lighty, it's "separate, but distinct". Then again, is this that much different than ''Berserk: the Prototype"?

Anyone count from the original Dante manga, or just the anime?

Edited by ACW on Feb 21st 2020 at 2:52:30 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202585: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:53:43 AM

Well, Dante himself is the Big Bad of Grimore. I would say that is enough.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#202586: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:54:24 AM

[tup] Turtle

[up][up][up] Reminds me of Skullman and Kamen Rider.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 21st 2020 at 4:54:41 PM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202587: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:54:39 AM

[up][up][up]From what i read about it, manga and anime are pretty similiar and anime just finished the story, as manga was left without any finale.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 21st 2020 at 10:54:52 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202588: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:55:00 AM

I think that was meant to be a version of Dante the immortal instead. Plus he's also combined with zenon and satan too

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202590: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:58:41 AM

That link also provided me with proposal for Amon image for the page.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202591: Feb 21st 2020 at 11:59:56 AM

I would say no. The original Demon Lord Dante is a prototype. While the character of Dante himself has shown up, it's not really more than a little wink and nod, especially as Nagai wrote other Demon Lord Dante stories that are their own thing.

The thing that makes Devilman is at least the presences of Akira, Ryo/Satan and Amon. Nagai will do shoutouts plenty, but it doesn't make them part of the Devilman mythos

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202592: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:01:02 PM

True, but Dante also appears in the Devilman Lady manga. If nothing else, I think this establishes at least a casual connection between Dante and Devilman.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202593: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:01:35 PM

That's not more than the wink and nod. The character of Dante is entirely different.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202595: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:02:09 PM

Damn. I figured this would happen. Oh well.

More importantly, I have some candidates of my own I should look into. Among others, I should probably look into that Dracula I was given.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 21st 2020 at 12:05:47 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202596: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:03:17 PM

I concur on that. Dante in Devilman Lady is a demon lord and some selfish asshole dude, who wanted to become a demon. Aside from them fusing looking like Dante's demon form from Demon Lord Dante, there is no connection.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:07:09 PM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#202597: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:03:20 PM

[tup] The Turtle Demon that is somehow not named Jinman.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#202598: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:06:18 PM

Say, why is the Steven King category in the Film Subpage if none of his movie adaptations are in it (or at least It (2017)).

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#202599: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:11:05 PM

Shawshank Redemption is based on one of King's novels. There's also Running Man.

Edited by AustinDR on Feb 21st 2020 at 12:13:51 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202600: Feb 21st 2020 at 12:13:52 PM

[up][up] Goddammit, again? I've fixed it.


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