During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Sure, cut Tengu.
Also, since I reserved it, I just saw the season finale of Harley Quinn (2019). PM me for discussion.
Not to derail anything or draw out a discussion, but re-readig the EP and thinking back on it, it's just sort of dawning on me about Zsasz was that as far as independent villainy goes, he doesn't really do all that much outside Roman. His own personality and motives aside, he seems too dependant on Roman when it comes to crimes.
So what make Zsasz different from, say, Diana Sydney, or Tamora Monroe, or Mickey Altieri ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."No. Ch'rell and several other villains in the series outclass him in that category as well. Tengu Shredder is just seems kinda bog standard compared to all monsters, who are in the list of 2003 series.
Roman Sionis and Victor Zsasz. About time we got iterations of these two that are Truer to the Text (their unique partnership notwithstanding).
Also, cut Tengu Shredder. Ch'rell practically blows him out of the water anyway.
Edited by CaptainPinkiePie on Feb 21st 2020 at 2:23:39 PM
Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.One more Devilman EP from me
What's the work?
The Apocalypse of Devilman: Strange Days
is a 6 chapter manga, created by Yu Kinutani, the creator of Amon: The Darkside of the Devilman
. Taking place in its own universe, which is one of the endless loops that Devilman setting is trapped in, the story follows Kira Udoa and Kasuka Ryuu, a talented members of a rock group, who are also Devilmen (humans, who merged with demons). The story is set during demon invasion, when demons stated appearing in the world, possessing people. As humanity became paranoid and started "witch hunts", resulting in deaths of many innocents, Kira and Kasuka try to protect their loved ones and end up on opposing sides of the last battle between demons and Devilman, as Kira joined Satan and Kasuka joined Akira.
My candidate is a nameless Expy of probably the most famous CM of the franchise - Jinmen-like turtle demon.
Who is the nameless turtle demon
◊?
A villain of second chapter, who appeared at the very last pages of the first chapter, this turtle demon is this world and this specific loop version of Jinmen, who has the very same love of torturing and killing people. Having eaten dozens of people, this turtle demon trapped them within his shell in a state
◊ of absolute agony
◊, intending to keep them that way for presumably eternity (certainly for a very long time). Having chasing the child, whose family he's eaten, he stumbles upon Kira and Kasuka (who rush toward the child, after they heard her screaming) and decided to "add them to his collection". As Kira and Kasuka transform into their Devilman forms, they started
◊ to battle this demon. Demon sadistically bites
◊ and cuts
◊ them until the mother of the child convinces
◊ the duo
◊ to use their powers to burn the demon (since by her own words
◊ all victims of the demon are already dead and can't return to being normal anyway). Kira and Kasuka kill
◊ the demon
◊, who asks
◊ why they would do that to a fellow demon, even though he tried to eat them
◊ literally seconds before.
Heinousness?
Even through it's a story set in its own universe, due to a time loop thing, the standard is quite high, due to the whole "witch hunts" thing and Satan and demons wiping out humanity after some time. But even if we take into account the whole franchise, this turtle demon stands out, being just as heinous as Jinmen (due to being his version from that time loop, but simply left unnamed) and his Fate Worse than Death method of torturing people. Plus he is a villain of a single chapter (the only one in this manga) and on lower on of a spectrum than Satan and Amon.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. He claims that demons shouldn't kill other demons, when Kira and Kasuka burned him, but considering that he literally tried to eat them and torture them for eternity, this falls flat.
Conclusion?
I will say Yes.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 21st 2020 at 10:07:38 PM

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 21st 2020 at 7:34:26 PM