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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202526: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:32:20 AM

I've seen them. Neither, I think, makes it. Milady is far too similar to her book counterpart (it's a direct adaptation) while Rochefort isn't nearly as bad as her, or even Cardinal Richelieu. He's just a ruthless fighter there but Milady is the one actually setting off the war and worse.

Mimic: I do have the different interpretation, and Word of God is basically they share a love of anarchy. I don't think it takes a redeeming form, but if you disagree, that's totally fine.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:35:56 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#202527: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:35:33 AM

Nevermind. Though, we do have some candidates listed for both mediums.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202528: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:36:29 AM

[up][up] I mean, they seem more like murder buddies than anything else. And as we have mentioned before, that is not disqualifying.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:36:41 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202529: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:41:49 AM

[up][up] This is true, but that's only in cases where they're either different enough from each other (Westeros baddies), or where work is subject to possible Adaptation Displacement (Anton Chigurh and Other Mother, for example, are both at Lit since that's the original, but also, respectively, at Film and Western Animation since those are the better known versions). We don't have, say, Film!Trunchbull (Theater!Trunchbull is different enough) or Tim Curry's Pennywise.

Edited by ACW on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:45:33 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#202530: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:52:58 AM

On Three Musketeers topic, I will try to read a sequel, 2 Years Later. Apparently, my dad told me, there is a villain who is Milady's son, and he is even worse than her. I will read the book and get back.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202531: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:54:14 AM

Mordaunt loved his mom and is laser-focused on avenging her.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202532: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:54:39 AM

Though she doesn't care about him back from what I remember.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#202533: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:55:17 AM

She never mentions him in the story, but she might. That said, since that isn't shown, we go by with what we have.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202534: Feb 21st 2020 at 6:57:38 AM

Milady didn't care about Mordaunt. Mordaunt cared about her. That's all. I've read the books.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#202535: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:04:20 AM

Heads up people. Tengu Shredder, whom I thought was deemed a cut, is still at the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles subpage.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202536: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:07:20 AM

I'm sure ACW is requesting the cut soon.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202537: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:13:31 AM

I held off on Tengu Shredder, as there were quite a few votes for keeping. Anyone wanna do a count?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202538: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:16:17 AM

I still can't understand the reasons for keeping since Romero does pretty much his entire rapsheet over two episodes with minimal resources.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#202539: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:21:40 AM

[up]Savanti Romero just wants to wipe out humanity; Tengu Shredder wants to create a nightmarish hellscape where demons have free rein to hunt humans, which is far more sadistic and cruel.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202540: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:22:38 AM

Yeah, Tengu Shredder seems to have a unique enough niche to justify keeping him.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202541: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:25:59 AM

And counsellor wants to have humanity butchered and eaten by his people too out of sadism.

Is their anything he really does thats legit unique for Th Is series.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202542: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:27:39 AM

I’m not convinced this nightmarish hellscape isn’t being a bit overstated in heinousness.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202543: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:36:12 AM

Wasn't Chrell from the Bad Future also basically created "Hell on Earth", where masses of people regularly slaughtered and all humanity worked near to death as a slave labor.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202544: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:48:00 AM

Yes. Yes he did.

I can't really think of anything he does that someone else hasn't in a worse manner.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 21st 2020 at 7:48:31 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#202545: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:51:28 AM

Eh, I'll switch to cutting the Tengu Shredder after thinking about it more; Bad Future!Ch'rell does do worse than him even without planning to spread his regime to other planets.

[down][down]In that case, I'll definitely say cut Tengu.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:20:04 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202546: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:03:00 AM

Suppose I will switch to cut myself, if only because this seems to be a classic case of Criminal Minds Syndrome.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#202547: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:19:03 AM

Black Mask actually is very much not a He-Man Woman Hater in comics most of the time, he targets most everyone equally and prejudices aren't focused on so much as the fact that he'll Cold-Blooded Torture men and women alike. Not much to this, just felt I should point it out, the movie!Sionis being a raging misogynst is actually a unique choice for the character that hasn't been put to page much in the past.

And yeah, Tengu!Shredder doesn't do anything very unique...his Hell on Earth scheme isn't portrayed as the be-all, end-all Fate Worse than Death for humanity it might sound like, he literally changes the design and layout of buildings to look more monstrous and opens portals for his demons to invade, it's not like innocents are burning alive perpetually or being slaughtered, resurrected, then slaughtered again. Bad Future!Shredder puts humanity through an explicitly horrible time, with starvation, folks being crippled and killed, etc all being very much onscreen and talked about as something that happens.

Even in the terms of the show itself, Tengu's actions aren't given as much weight as someone like Bad Future!Shredder, so I think he's a cut.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:23:05 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202548: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:23:37 AM

Someone please remind me again how Tengu's resources compare to Ch'rell's?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202549: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:25:36 AM

It's not really a resource situation. There's no major disparity.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202550: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:27:58 AM

Ah, in that case, since they're fairly equal, and since according to Ravok Future!Ch'rell is actually explicitly bad than Tengu, I'll toss in a vote to cut as well.


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