During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
~Lightysnake: Uh... genuine question: what did I say that was anti-feminist? All I said was, I did not like Birds of Prey, I preferred Suicide Squad, and I am a little bummed about King Aerys being cut? (I mean, I really enjoyed Mai-HiME, which is definitely a Feminist Fantasy, for the gripping drama and character interactions, so...)
Edited by MasterN on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:07:22 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Roman and Zsasz. Abstain on White Rabbit.
@Imperial: Zsasz doesn't count in the Arkham series.
EDIT: This will make 4 incarnations for Zsasz; aside from the Post-Crisis and New 52 incarnations, there's one from a fan script that Jackie proposed.
Edited by falcontalons on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:04:24 AM
@Lightysnake
No offense, but I don't buy the argument of "We don't see Roman reacting to Zsasz's death, that means he never cared about him", considering that: 1. He was in the middle of a battle, not the best place to get all emotional about it. 2. He died 10 minutes after Zsasz, so of course he didn't really have any time to do much. 3. He didn't know for sure whether Zsasz was killed or not.
I'm pretty sure that if Roman had survived the battle and learned about Zsasz's death, he would have been very pissed off about it. It's not just an assumption, even Harley thinks the same (she tells Huntress that even if she leaves the battle, Roman will hunt her down to get revenge on her for killing his BFF).
Roman gets time to storm the building with his army, and isn't fighting there, with at least some dialogue out. He never expresses any concern for Zsasz during that time. Would he be angry Zsasz died? Probably. Would it be the same as a redeeming feature for someone who lost a genuine friend? Have my doubts.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I concur. Anything else is delving into Alternative Character Interpretation territory. We had that issue with Griffith, for example.
Off-topic, but okay.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:13:51 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.The latter. Roman is violently misogynist. Like, it does not take much to set him off at women. The film is not subtle with how he views them as possessions or something to abuse, like with the extremely dark scene of humiliating a woman at his club for laughing at the wrong time when he wasn't even part of the conversation
Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:19:22 AM
Got it, and thanks. Roman, at least, seems like a clear keeper, while Zsasz seems like a relatively clear one.
Though with Roman, it seems like it doesn't take much to set him off PERIOD.
Edited by ACW on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:18:53 AM
Uh it's black mask. Him being a He-Man Woman Hater is very much comic accurate.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@Master N It's not Alternative Character Interpretation, In-Universe the two characters are described as being "BFF"... And from what we saw in their interactions, in which they are very affectionate with each others, everything seems to indicate that this is indeed the case.
By the way guys, I watched two amazing movie The Three Musketeers and the sequel The Four Musketeers. I have two candidates; Milady de Winter (who is exactly as in the book) and maybe Comte de Rochefort (who as always underwent Adaptational Villainy).
Welcome to the world of greatest media!

I'm seeing BOP tonight and forgot today was the day we could start discussion, I'm a moron. Abstaining for now.
to Rabbit. Doesn't seem to match the standard of Cheshire Cat.
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.