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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202451: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:48:49 PM

[up][up][up] IIRC, his personality and backstory weren't quite so fleshed out on the show, so he just came off as a bit too much of a standard "mad tyrant" to qualify.

[up][up] Just a minor quibble, but while he did stop cheating on his wife, he was still an abusive bastard towards her. The kids thing seems to hold a good deal more weight, though.

[tup] to Zsasz

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 20th 2020 at 7:56:01 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202452: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:49:23 PM

Well he did appear in the show, in a 3 second flashback where he screamed "BURN THEM ALL!"

[tup] to the Birds of Prey duo.(Or, I guess the Harley Quinn duo, as they stopped trying to hide it and renamed the film "Harley Quinn:Birds of prey")

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 20th 2020 at 5:54:27 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202454: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:51:43 PM

Aerys is described as listening to 'the voices in his head,' has a three second cameo and no character. Not comparable to Jaime's lengthy recollections in the books.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#202455: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:52:19 PM

[tup] to Roman and Zsaz

Say I wonder if the Joker since he broke up with Harley, discarding what was his only redeeming quality?

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 20th 2020 at 5:55:34 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202456: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:53:03 PM

I think Lighty's taking care of Zsasz, and Joker I'm guessing isn't heinous enough.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#202457: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:54:39 PM

honestly still going to abstain on Aerys

[tup]Zsasz (4th iteration?)

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#202458: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:54:57 PM

Imperial asked this earlier on, but I shall expand: the two of us are convinced that Marvel should get their own film subpage as there are enough candidates from the non-MCU films (6 X-Men, 2 Fantastic Four, 2 Daredevil and 3 Ghost Rider). The idea is to give a film subpage, split the non-MCU entries based on the film series they belong to, and then add a link for the MCU films, leading to the MCU subpage.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202459: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:55:01 PM

We're not discussing the Joker. He's done nothing to warrant it here.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202460: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:55:21 PM

[up][up][up] I don't know how many this makes for him or BM.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 20th 2020 at 7:56:43 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#202463: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:58:43 PM

I've always wondered how heinousness standards worked. How can a work have 2 baddies with differing resources still both count without one overshadowing the other? likewise, how can 2 guys with approximately the same resources both count or one counting but not the other (say 2 villains are both powerful rulers, but one's more calculating while the other's more barbaric)

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 20th 2020 at 8:05:02 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#202464: Feb 20th 2020 at 7:59:08 PM

[tup]Black Mask and Zsasz. Funny to have a version where they count but Mr. J doesn't.

Why so serious?
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202465: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:02:14 PM

[up][up] Because one is capable of more than another. You'd expect a dictator to be capable of greater atrocities than a gangster, or a god to be capable of worse than a goblin.

[up] You know what amuses me? There's one continuity where it's Luthor who's the CM and Joker who's the MB.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202466: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:02:29 PM

Oh, I missed Zsasz's EP on the previous page. Yes to him. I think this is the 3rd incarnation for each (Post-Crisis and New 52).

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202467: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:03:04 PM

[up] Didn't Zsasz also qualify in the Arkham Series?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#202468: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:03:10 PM

[up][up][up] which one?

[tup]to Zsasz

Edited by Libraryseraph on Feb 20th 2020 at 11:05:25 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#202469: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:03:48 PM

[up][up]So can it be that both the dictator/god and the gangster/goblin can both be equal in terms of villainy. (if we had an example like that in the first place)? I'm asking because I am a bit confused on that whole ideal.

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 20th 2020 at 8:05:19 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202470: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:04:24 PM

[tup] to Zsasz, two easy ones from the same recent movie wow

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202471: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:05:05 PM

Yeah. Someone like, say, Darkseid, is capable of FAR more than someone like Black Manta.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202472: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:05:26 PM

[up][up][up][up] Earth-3839. The one where Joker made it clear that he despised Nazis.

[up] Pretty much.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 20th 2020 at 8:07:22 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#202473: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:07:50 PM

[up]So I guess it's pretty much how much they stand out, regardless of if their all-powerful beings or just simple thugs. If so that clears a lot up.

about BOP, I would've preferred it if they actually focused on the birds of prey, and maybe saved Harley for a solo movie.

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 20th 2020 at 8:11:55 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202474: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:11:41 PM

Yeah. It's if they do the most with what they have.

As for Earth-3839, I'm grouping those entries together under an Earth-3839 tree in Elseworlds.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#202475: Feb 20th 2020 at 8:19:56 PM

Enthusiastic yes to Roman and Victor.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

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