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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202327: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:36:51 AM

Maegor and Tyanna are still there., so yes.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202328: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:37:31 AM

Wait are we removing Maegor and his wife and those Tageryan dudes.

I thought it was just Aerys.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202329: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:40:00 AM

[up] We're just removing Aerys; I wanna make sure none of those works JUST have him as the CM.

Also, lemme try:

  • Worth Dying For: Jacob Duncan runs a rural Nebraska farmer town like a tinpot dictator, along with his brothers Jonas and Jasper and his adopted son Seth. Jacob and his family run a trucking business whose service they force upon every family in town. Anyone who refuses or disagrees with them would find themselves beaten up and their properties ruined by a gang of ex-college football players on the Duncans' payroll. Jacob and his family use this business to smuggle children and others from Asia to the heartland United States and elsewhere for sex trafficking; they are all pedophiles who murder every child they've grown bored with and make a shrine and photographic memento of every corpse—about 60 in all, 2 or 3 every year. Even Reacher, a former MP who's seen all kinds of corpses himself, explicitly admits he regrets having taken a look at the barn where the Jacob and his family hold these shrines.

Edited by ACW on Feb 20th 2020 at 1:43:02 PM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202330: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:40:01 AM

@Future Show! Euron is little more than a cartoon pirate who's barely distungishable from a goofy Pirates of the Carribean villain except for how much he talks about sex and doesn't even come close to qualifying.

Book! Euron is a child molesting, innocent civilian-slaughtering, baby-brother murdering, psychopathic Evil Overlord who wants to destroy all of human society so he can rule as a God over the remains and is very very likely to be added when/if Winds of Winter ever comes out because the only thing holding him back right now is lack of screentime

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:45:32 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202331: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:40:29 AM

What I'm saying is that even if the Mad King was genuinely upset at his children dying, his later make the idea that he still had familial love as a redeeming quality extremely questionable. There have been plenty of CM characters who went through traumatic experiences or used to have people they cared about.

Here's my question: does he ever bring up his dead kids again? Is there any indication that he's still hurting over their deaths?

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202332: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:41:03 AM

Cut the Mad King.

Fun fact; every time we wind up having to cut an otherwise good candidate, I always play this video.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202333: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:44:10 AM

Tthat's not the standard I think we should use. His grief over his kids' death is never revoked. He doesn't need to be sobbing over his dead child at random intervals. And this is a propaganda source that has every incentive to portray Aerys as the worst person ever, openly speculating he murdered his own grandkids (when we know it was Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch).

But besides that, he's posthumous. He's only seen through flashbacks with others.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:44:39 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202334: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:46:33 AM

Oh, wait, nevermind, I was confusing my Evil Overlord psychotic kings there [lol]

Also, wasn't Show!Euron supposed to be worse than Ramsay?

Edited by ACW on Feb 20th 2020 at 1:47:25 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202336: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:48:26 AM

[up][up] If they were aiming for him to be worse than Ramsay they failed at that in miserable fashion lmao

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:51:16 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202337: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:51:15 AM

[up] He didn't actually kill his grandkids, but he was willing to do it as part of a ploy to spite his enemies. Anti-Targaryen propaganda or not, that is established fact.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#202338: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:51:53 AM

Um...okay, I'm voting [tdown] for Two-Toed Tom. This story is...ridiculously short. Like under 2000 words. It can basically be summed up as this:

"Two-Toe Tom is a mean son of a bitch. A hunter tried to kill him and failed. Tom got pissed and murdered his kids. The hunter gets pissed and kills Tom and himself. Maybe. Possibly."

I've been very lenient on these short stories, but this feels more of like a checklist of all the horrible things Tom does. And then it kinda just ends. :/

I'm not gonna lose sleep if he goes up. But this story doesn't have enough substance for me.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202339: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:53:46 AM

[tdown]Tom then.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202340: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:53:59 AM

In that case, yeah, that's a no. Thanks, Tyk.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202341: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:54:23 AM

I think it should also be pointed out that there's a certain "vicious idiot of a king" who mourned the man he thought was his father, but still qualifies as a CM due to the fact that any familial love he may have had at some point is stone dead.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202342: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:54:32 AM

[up] He didn't kill or ever attempt to kill his grandchildren though. If he was willing to do so or not is irrelevant. You don't get arrested for being willing to commit a crime if you never actually commit it.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:54:58 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202343: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:56:06 AM

[up][up] Joffrey in the book literally had to be reminded about his father, and is a consummate sociopath who may have looked sad when he was supposed to.

Aerys had zero by way of impulse or emotional control and is sobbing over his son's death, praying and mourning to excessive levels while Joffrey is just "Pffft, whatev, time to murder all my siblings."

Also, yeah, hard no to tom. 1,3000 word story with nothing going by characterization for it. No.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:56:32 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202344: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:56:37 AM

[up][up][up] Also Joffrey mourning Robert is exclusive to the TV show. In the books Tyrion actually has to remind Joff that he's supposed to act sad about his "father's" death.

Show Joffrey I can see the argument for him being disqualified but Book! Joffrey has no love for anyone but himself at any point and is an absolute keeper

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:56:50 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#202345: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:56:59 AM

Unrelated, but that was actually apart of a series I'm doing. May go back to the story at some point, but I thought I should mention it.

Edited by AustinDR on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:57:29 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202346: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:57:44 AM

[up][up][up][up] Slight correction. To be a CM, one doesn't even need to attempt, as long as one has taken concrete steps towards doing whatever (see: Jerry Reinhold's "Shit List").

Edited by ACW on Feb 20th 2020 at 1:57:58 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202347: Feb 20th 2020 at 10:58:51 AM

Man your not wrong tyke. That story is Barebones. Like a few paragraphs at most.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202348: Feb 20th 2020 at 11:00:23 AM

Also, I'll file the cut for Aerys tomorrow morning if it's still a cut; wasn't there another possible cut mentioned recently?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#202349: Feb 20th 2020 at 11:00:30 AM

[up][up] Oh. Well if that’s the case [tdown] Tom.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 20th 2020 at 11:00:42 AM

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#202350: Feb 20th 2020 at 11:02:34 AM

Thanks for that Tyk, no to Tom.


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