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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202176: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:24:34 PM

I think whichever character was properly introduced first and became plot relevant first should get precedence.

Condolences, Bullman.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202177: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:28:28 PM

You have my sympathies @ Bullman my aunt died like 5 years ago and it was hard

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#202178: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:29:25 PM

[tup] to Kentos and the two serial killers

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202179: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:47:17 PM

And condolence, Bull. Take all the time you need.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#202180: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:55:49 PM

So I had noticed that recently, that there are numerous repeated violations of the two-week rule here, the latest being about the 2020 Sonic movie a few pages back. This now upsets me that I would like everyone to figure out a solution to this problem because there is no point in placing a warning of this rule at the header alone if it’s ignored repeatedly.

I would also want to communicate this issue with a moderator. Should I do it or not?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#202181: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:56:35 PM

Anymore thoughts on whether or not we should cut Brad? No pun intended this time. I'd kinda like to at least hear what Pure has to say in defense of keeping him, if anything at all, given how he ended the EP. So far, I have 3 yays and one abstain.

Edited by Stellarvore on Feb 19th 2020 at 5:57:31 AM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#202183: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:00:01 PM

I’ll also repost the EP, which can be found at this link.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202184: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:00:21 PM

Sometimes it'll just happen, and there's not much we can do with that.

Also, has it been noticeably happening recently? I haven't seen it happen any more then usual but I could be wrong.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202185: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:05:07 PM

Before I vote either way, I'd like to see what Pure has to say.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#202186: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:09:15 PM

@Draxterrus: It's been noticeably happening for years. We've done all we can to enforce it; stickered it at the top of the header, inserted in the FAQ, and we throw out thumps for even accidental violations.

And the only violations nowadays I've noted are generally from newbies who are unfamiliar with this thread's concept and rules. Why they don't pay a second glance to the header is beyond me, but I don't think there's much more of a way we can get to enforce this any harder. The majority of transgressions against it are accidental missteps.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 19th 2020 at 5:13:17 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#202187: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:11:26 PM

Also I’ll ping ~Pure Grain Alka Seltzer so they’ll come to the thread.

[up] Got it.

Edited by Draxterrus on Feb 19th 2020 at 8:13:21 PM

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202188: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:13:42 PM

[up][up] That is correct. We don't have a monopoly on this site; and as irritating as it is that people don't at least read the header, there is only so much we can do to ensure the rules are followed.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 19th 2020 at 7:16:48 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#202189: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:15:13 PM

My condolences, Bull.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 19th 2020 at 9:18:10 AM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#202190: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:17:34 PM

[tup] Kentos

For RWBY, I'd keep Cinder first. Adam appeared first, but he didn't really do anything in the show itself until Volume 3; additionally, Cinder is the secondary antagonist whereas Adam is more of just "a major" antagonist.

On that note, are we going to add what Cinder did in Volumes 6 and 7 as well?

Edited by SumDumNerd on Feb 19th 2020 at 5:17:43 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#202191: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:20:05 PM

[up]Cinder doesn't really do anything noteworthy in Volumes 6 and 7, IIRC.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202192: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:23:49 PM

I'll lean Cut to Brad but I'd like to hear from Grain.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202193: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:33:30 PM

@Nerd

Actually Adam in his introduction tried to kill a train full of innocent people, wich is more then cinder does til volume 3.

And yeah in Volume 6 and 7 all she does is is kill a woman to take her clothes and tries to kill an elderly woman.

[down] A little subjective(IMO cinder ain't really any more Major then the other secondary antagonists at this point) but that's perfectly fair.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 19th 2020 at 2:39:54 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#202194: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:38:11 PM

[up] I'd still say Adam come after Cinder since he's not as major an antagonist as she is, but that's just me.

Volume 6 yeah, didn't do much other than kill a woman and team up with Neo, but I think it would be important to at least mention that the "old woman" she tried to assassinate in Volume 7 was the Winter Maiden, which would have resulted in her gaining even more power and would have made her even more deadly than she currently is.

Edited by SumDumNerd on Feb 19th 2020 at 5:41:21 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202195: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:42:37 PM

I guess, but thats essentially just her trying to do something she already did in volume 3(Kill a maiden). And while it would have given her more power and let her commit some big atrocity if she succeeded...well, that isn't what happened. Plus she already tried killing the spring maiden back in volume 5.

I can see the logic but it feels like it'd be a little stuffed in.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 19th 2020 at 2:54:01 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202197: Feb 19th 2020 at 5:17:31 PM

Also, let me just add real quick....if someone screws up or posts here suddenly?

Gently correct them. We don't need to treat this like it's exclusive. People make msitakes or don't get it. It's easily remedied. Just be cool with newcomers, who don't even know what an effortpost is. I stress that the EP format is not required and most people don't know what it is. It's simply an organizational tool to deliver all necessary info.

I think this thread can be a bit too unfriendly to newcomers sometimes myself and want to curb that. They'll make mistakes. It happens. I don't think any of us are wounded by that.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#202198: Feb 19th 2020 at 5:17:57 PM

I'm sorry Bull, hope you do well.

[tup] Kentos and the Serial Killer duo.

So how many on-screen victims do we need to consider someone long streak of crime to count? I have a candidate similar to Dollface in Twisted Metal who love torture and attack her competition, though we only see it with one character, but it is mention she's been doing it for years. Also in this same series where we have a serial rapist, she also is an attempted rapist by trying to initiate a gang rape on her competitor and even attempted murder, which she plans to keep doing in the future. Any thoughts?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202199: Feb 19th 2020 at 5:18:35 PM

[up][up] You're right, we probably should try being more polite to newbies.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#202200: Feb 19th 2020 at 5:26:19 PM

[tup] Vampire Lord, Kentos, Leonard and Charles


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