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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#202102: Feb 19th 2020 at 1:30:54 AM

[tup] Bathory, Skinwalker and Hellboy duo.

So I made a revise for one of my old entrees in the Death Mark page:

  • The principal of H Elementary is a depraved man behind Hanahiko's horrific past. Renowned and respected by the public, the principal is secretly a pedophile who abuses his adopted son for the latter's feminine practices in public, damaging his reputation. Taking him to a hidden room inside the school late at night, the principal would have his way with his son for his own satisfaction. This happened for years, slowly worsening his son's health before succumbing. Even among the vengeful spirits, the principal stands out as being a truly evil monster.

The thing I change was the label for the principal since it seemed at first the reason why he abuse Hanahiko was because of his feminine practices. That's not entirely true, while he was motivated by Hanahiko's "questionable practices" and doing it in public, what really drive him was heavily implied that the principal was a gay pedophile. Yup, this actually came a bit worse then it seemed appear.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Feb 19th 2020 at 1:31:54 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#202103: Feb 19th 2020 at 2:07:54 AM

[tup] to Bathory, the Skinwalker, von Klempt and Diovanni.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202104: Feb 19th 2020 at 3:04:43 AM

[tup] Skinwalker, Hellboy duo.

Stellarvore, Newton: Drafts please.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202107: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:20:48 AM

Yeah, easy yes to both von Klempt and Diovanni. As far as Nimue goes...N? I read the comics, proposed her ages ago. She's a worshiper of the Oghdru Jahad, same as countless other baddies. It's not a bar to keeping. She's insane, yes, but not to a degree as to lacking agency.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#202108: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:36:26 AM

[tup] to Herman von Klempt and Romulus Diovanni.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202109: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:38:55 AM

BTW, didn't Nimue supposedly kill Hellboy? How'd he survive?

Also, out of curiosity, are Baba Yaga and Rasputin himself among the proposals?

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2020 at 9:40:38 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202110: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:42:44 AM

He went to hell and lived their for a bit. I think he's back in the human world now

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#202111: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:43:07 AM

They are not. We considered them going in but both Rasputin and Baba Yaga have, if only a few, mitigating qualities that stop them due to their strange morality and motives.

TBH, I think the only major villain we still have upcoming is Landis Pope. Maybe Hellboy's dad but he hardly constitutes as a "major" villain.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 19th 2020 at 7:44:23 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202112: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:49:31 AM

ACW....before you bog us down with questions, just kindly start googling it. The tropes page AND Wikipedia have the answers. Hellboy didn't survive, hence the next title "Hellboy In Hell." After hell's hierarchy is overthrown, he vanishes to heaven and that's the end of the Hellboy series.

Scraggle also covered what I want to say on Rasputin and Baba Yaga. Rasputin seems to truly believe that the apocalypse is inevitable and ending the world to create a new one is the best thing. Whereas Baba Yaga has some individuals she cares for and has a bizarre code of morality that she adheres to.

My next Hellboy one...from the Sleeping and the Dead...the Vampire Lord.

Who is the Vampire Lord?

Pretty much the chief of the species. Now, some backstory? Mike Mignola admits he loves old school European, Dracula-inspired vampires but realized he hadn't done much with them...so he decided to base a story on why that was. In this one, Hellboy is tracking a vampire of the European breed....and hasn't seen much of them. See, in the 16th and 17th century, vampirism was an epidemic. Hunters perfected their arts and vampirism in Europe was seen as on the verge of extermination. The vampire lord called the other heads of great vampire families and they agreed they'd hide themselves, in 1774, make new vampires in secret and leave them sleeping in their graves "till men forget."

The Vampire Lord has them slowly kill and turn countless people over the course of years, imprisoning them, ravenous and starving below, to create armies for the purpose of, centuries on, unleashing them with the vampire apocalypse seen, humanity all but wiped out by the "sleeping armies" of vampires in an unsuspecting world....Hellboy is told this stor yby an old caretaker with history with the vampire lord, who claimed to be a distant relative. The caretaker was made a slave and he turned one of the man's sisters into a corrupted monster Hellboy destroyed...and took the man's other sister, a little girl named Mary. "She became their plaything. The things they did to her...I can't..."

Over the next years, they killed multiple people, making the caretaker bury the bodies, preying on others of the village, slowly drawing blood as not to draw attention....all those bodies are buried, waiting to be called up one day. and little Mary? Was locked away, down in the catacombs below the house, since he turned her into something else, which is fed human beings. Hellboy is sent down to face the monstrous Mary...as the other BPRD agents arrive and the Vampire lord begins raising his victims for a full on vampire zombie assault to kill them.

Hellboy defeats Mary, releasing her soul as the vampire lord arrives to attack the caretaker for failing...and Mary closes it on her old tormentor, crushing him in hand and squeezing until his head flies off, killing the vampires. Mary's soul passes on with those the vampire lord has enslaved and Hellboy has quite the story over drinks.

Heinousness?

Vampire apocalypse? Check. Mass, mass murder? Check. Vampire thralls in this are little but extensions of their masters, so the people he kills are just murdered and replaced with shells he controls. Implicitly raping a little girl in horrific, perverted rituals before keeping her shade locked away to be fed? Unique for monsters in Hellboy, so credit where it's due.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nothing. He's the top vampire seen and a nasty, vicious, perverted monster out for an eventual apocalypse, with loads of evil, petty cruelty on the way.

Conclusion?

A big yes.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 19th 2020 at 6:51:33 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202113: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:50:58 AM

You guys are gonna need to let me know the order of the comic baddies. I'm guessing the Nazi dude should go first.

Rasputin oddly only has 2 CM incarnations: Von Ausch from KGB comic and Ivanovic.

EDIT: And a yes to the Lord.

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2020 at 9:55:50 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202115: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:52:57 AM

[tup]vampire

Man one of these days I'll count how many vampire cms we have. The number must be in the hundreds at this point

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202116: Feb 19th 2020 at 7:10:32 AM

I meant Hellboy's revival after "Hellboy in Hell''.

Anyway, I'm thinking for the order:

  • Nazi dude (appeared from the beginning)
  • Nimue (appeared after the next one, but a major villain)
  • Romulus Diovanni (first one-shot)
  • The Sleeping and the Dead: Vampire Lord (one-shot after Romulus)

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202117: Feb 19th 2020 at 7:14:26 AM

Just check to see if Soul of Venice came out before Sleeping and the Dead. The former is a BPRD story, the latter is one of the Hellboy ones.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202118: Feb 19th 2020 at 7:15:29 AM

[tup] Vampire Lord. Thanks, Lighty.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202120: Feb 19th 2020 at 7:25:31 AM

Yeah, I checked that. Soul was May 2003, Sleeping started December 2010.

Nimue first appeared several years after Soul, but as she's one of the main villains, I think she can go right after Herman.

For Comic Books, I'll just put:

And for the entry, I'll put B.P.R.D.: The Soul of Venice

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2020 at 10:30:06 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#202122: Feb 19th 2020 at 7:28:52 AM

[tup] to the Hellboy candidates. I may not known much about Comic!Rasputin but I definitely know his movie version doesn’t count, and neither does Nuada (Did I say that right?) from the sequel.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202124: Feb 19th 2020 at 8:25:28 AM

Actually, I'll put Diovanni last.

  • Main villains.
  • One-shot Hellboy baddies.
  • Main BPRD baddies (if applicable).
  • One-shot BPRD baddies.

Edited by ACW on Feb 19th 2020 at 11:25:33 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202125: Feb 19th 2020 at 8:48:48 AM

About the Principal of H, should we replace the Would Hurt a Child pothole with Pedo Hunt?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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