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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202026: Feb 18th 2020 at 9:59:25 AM

Let's send it towards image pick in.

Also wishing polar the best on his retirement

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202027: Feb 18th 2020 at 9:59:39 AM

That may be partially due to Amon being from an OVA instead of a manga scan.

Although, to avoid the brouhaha we had with American Horror Story, should I take it to image pickin'? Especially since Amon seems to have gotten enough votes to be there?

I like the new header. Is everyone okay with bringing back the Devilman page?

Also, I REALLY should read Nagai's work. I mean, there's Gorn, there's Fanservice...what's not to like? [lol]

Edited by ACW on Feb 18th 2020 at 1:02:07 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202028: Feb 18th 2020 at 10:00:41 AM

Well send it with all three options. Cadney, Amon and Jinmen. Then let the people decide.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202029: Feb 18th 2020 at 10:08:16 AM

Alrighty, writeup time:

  • Japanese Folklore: Tamamo-No-Mae is one of the three most fearsome Yokai of Japan. A wicked fox spirit, she possesses or takes the forms of women to seduce kings with her beauty, pushing them to savage atrocity and brutality where countless innocents are tortured and slaughtered, eventually kicking off wars before skipping town. Doing this across the continent of Asia, Tamamo no Mae also preys upon women and children in her spare time, eventually cursing Japan with her death to lead to a brutal war.
  • Breton folklore: Conomor the Accursed is a king made infamous by folklore stories that likely inspired the Fairy Tale of Bluebeard. A feared and brutal king, Conomor is also a serial-widower whose wives have a tendency to vanish. Forcing the marriage of the beautiful Trephine by threatening her lands, Conomor is revealed to murder his wives when they either anger him or fall pregnant, depending on the tale, with multiple dead brides in his past. Conomor attempts to murder Trephine for violating his orders, and after his just death is too evil to enter the afterlife, becoming a murderous werewolf.
  • RWBY: Arthur Watts is the highest ranked member of Salem's inner circle, assisting Cinder in her actions in Vale to throw the city into chaos and facilitate a Grimm invasion. Returning to Atlas and Mantle, Watts schemes to have the vicious Tyrian Carrows murder the supporters of Robyn Hill and frame Penny Polendina for the killings, shutting down Mantle's heating grid to allow countless citizens to freeze to death to rely on chaos and negative emotions to bring about a Grimm invasion of slaughter to further Salem's schemes.
  • Demon Hunter Mitsurugi: Demon Scorpion is the main villain of the series. an otherworldly being intent on conquering Edo, Demon Scorpion sends multiple monsters at the capital to slaughter the population, with many casualties, even targeting population centers or trying to murder children. Relying on plagues and other schemes to ramp up the body count, Demon Scorpion eventually decides to summon the ultimate monster to kill as many as possible to place himself in charge of the world.
  • Sabrina: Friendly icecream man Jimmy Platt is a depraved Satanist who bargained away his soul and is instructed to buy it back with that of an innocent. Deciding there's nothing more innocent than a little girl, Jimmy proceeds to abduct and murder the children, eating their hearts every seven years. Upon learning Sabrina is in charge of hell, Jimmy intends to blackmail her for more life, or he will simply allow the girl to die before trying to murder another little boy anyways to extend his existence.
  • Endless Night: Simon Quirt is a member of a group of friends known as the Killer Kruls who are serial murderers and rapists ever since high school when they gangraped, tortured and murdered a classmate. Killing and raping tons of innocents since, Quirt slaughters the family of heroine Jodie's friend Evelyn, save her brother Andy, and becomes obsessed with hunting Jodie down. Killing and raping multiple innocents along the way, Quirt kills his 'friends' when they seek to punish him for leaving survivors and eventually tries to rape Jodie after murdering Andy.
  • Hand-Delivered Letter: After Reichenbach Falls, Moriarty is found by a kind farmer couple who he later murders to escape. Rounding up scientists, Moriarty creates an undead plague, testing it on innocents and murdering his scientists to cover it up. Later having Watson killed by a zombie, Moriarty brings down a zombie plague on London just to spite Sherlock Holmes, sending the titular letter to gloat over the apocalypse.
  • Cassandra Palmer:
    • The wicked god Apollo once ruled portions of the world, terrorizing, sacrificing and tormenting mortals en masse while feeding on magic. To escape his prison and resume brutal dominion where few humans survive, Apollo hunts for the Pythia, Cassandra Palmer to sway her to his side. Secretly arranging for a genocide of magic users, Apollo tries to break free and devastate the mortal world to resume his godhood.
    • Ares has his children, the Spartoi, try to hunt down and slaughter anyone who will be a problem to his return, particularly the traitorous goddess Artemis who helped the mortals banish and bind the other gods. Ares sways Nimue into conflict with her grandson Arthur and kicks off a brutal war between the Fay, funding it with sex slavery to eventually free himself and throw the world into war to establish his own dominion.
  • The Resurrected: Joseph Curwen is a wicked necromancer who experiments on innocents to turn them into agonized, twisted abominations. Leaving notes for a descendant to revive him, Curwen murders his descendant Charles Ward to take his place and, upon developing a craving for flesh and blood, becomes a vicious serial killer who cannibalizes his victims. Locked in an asylum as investigator March gets to the truth, Curwen kills an orderly and intends to eat March alive, threatening to find Charles' wife and eat her as well before continuing his work.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202030: Feb 18th 2020 at 10:10:13 AM

@acw: Uh hold off on submitting the Cassandra Palmer stuff. Till I get the last guy up.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 18th 2020 at 10:10:24 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202031: Feb 18th 2020 at 10:11:16 AM

[up] Heh, I was just gonna ask about that. I'll do the same for the Sherlock Holmes stuff too?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202032: Feb 18th 2020 at 10:16:28 AM

Yeah

As far as the Cassandra palmer guy. Hes the last of the recurring villains to bite it. As off now for later books it's a wait till the ultimate villain of the series Zeus arrives

Edited by miraculous on Feb 18th 2020 at 10:19:18 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202033: Feb 18th 2020 at 11:12:19 AM

Here is the image of Cadney.

Also a quote from Cadney too, just in case if image will not go to the page.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202034: Feb 18th 2020 at 11:59:20 AM

Eh, not too fond of the image. The quote may work if we end up using the Jinmen image though.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202035: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:01:03 PM

By the way, found this on EvenEvilHasStandards.Anime And Manga:

  • Prime Minister Honest may be an Evil Chancellor, a Manipulative Bastard and the root of all corruption in the empire, but even he has standards of his own. For starters, he actually feels sorry for Tatsumi when he ends up being Esdeath's lover. When Esdeath decides to drink an entire vial of demon blood, Honest immediately tries to get her to back off since it could've killed her. He makes a toast with her once she proves him wrong by surviving and taming the demon blood.

Is this legit? The second one seems like just Pragmatic Villainy since he needs Esdeath. The first one...

Edited by MasterN on Feb 18th 2020 at 12:02:37 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202036: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:03:54 PM

I don't know about the first, but I do believe Lighty indeed said the second was pragmatic.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202037: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:05:38 PM

He just offhandedly comments on the former. That's not redeeming at-fucking-all given he's a serial rapist who gets over his own son's death in a heartbeat. Just "Man, sucks for him, poor guy. Let's get back to murder now."

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202038: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:07:08 PM

He sounds like such a complex and subtle villain

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202039: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:07:34 PM

Okay, removing.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202040: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:07:54 PM

Ah one of those things.

I'm still amused by how he apparently cries that his son died...then, like, IMMEDIATELY gets over it [lol]

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202041: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:09:04 PM

Image is ok, I guess, but I think I'd like to see what Image Pickin' has to say. It works for image links, I think.

Quote's a little long.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#202042: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:11:23 PM
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202043: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:19:33 PM

Also, another thing on the Even Evil Has Standards animanga page. I hate to bring back the Akainu debate, but some troper gave him an entry:

  • It was surprising when it was revealed that even Admiral Akainu had standards. He had clashed with Aokiji over who would become the next Fleet Admiral with the latter heavily opposing his ideals and promotion. Their conflict eventually led to them having a fight to the death to see who would become the Fleet Admiral. In the end, the former won but he decided to spare the latter. It was lampshaded that even Akainu couldn't face his previous ally without some sympathy. Although the case could be made that Admiral Aokiji had not committed a crime and that the fight was a duel, not a matter of justice.

So, what is with this?

Edited by MasterN on Feb 18th 2020 at 12:20:00 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202044: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:24:53 PM

Been brought up multiple times. Duel is offscreen and we don't know what happened or why

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 18th 2020 at 12:25:09 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202045: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:26:10 PM

[up]So, delete?

Also, because I have nothing else to do and so have decided to comb through the Even Evil Has Standards animanga page, from Vento Aureo:

  • Diavolo, the Big Bad of the Part, is the head of the Passione mafia. He is not above drug-dealing, and he's perfectly willing to murder his own daughter (who has never met him) in order to keep his identity secret. But all that said, even he despises Cioccolata, to the point of dismissing him as "human garbage". The only reason Diavolo keeps Cioccolata around is because it's better to have his abilities working for him rather than against him.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 18th 2020 at 12:31:02 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202046: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:33:30 PM

N, not our job to police other tropes or other people's interpretations of them.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202047: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:35:53 PM

I mean hasn't all this stuff come up before....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#202048: Feb 18th 2020 at 12:40:32 PM

Yes. This trope is YMMV. We've discussed it. What doesn't need to happen is "I'm just browsing EEHS to delete anything that doesn't line up with what we decide here."

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202049: Feb 18th 2020 at 1:24:37 PM

I honestly think there should be a separate cleanup thread for EEHS.

That way, we don't have to post about that trope in this thread.

I mean, regardless of monster candidates, that trope has seen a lot of misuse.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 18th 2020 at 4:32:47 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202050: Feb 18th 2020 at 1:40:38 PM

[up]I agree, and I made a query on Ask The Tropers. That being said, I will keep my concerns off this thread.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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