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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#202002: Feb 17th 2020 at 5:11:29 PM

Not many pothole suggestions this time, ACW. Just Auction of Evil at "secret auction" for the second I Spy entry.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#202003: Feb 17th 2020 at 5:46:00 PM

So refresh my memory, but do we have any Skinwalker examples up ? I ask because in a couple of days I might be doing an EP on a Skinwalker villain and I'm wondering if they are something considered Always Chaotic Evil.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#202004: Feb 17th 2020 at 5:46:57 PM

[up]We do have Shagnasty, and another one from a Madame Macabre song.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 17th 2020 at 5:48:00 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#202005: Feb 17th 2020 at 8:36:20 PM

Alright so aside with a couple abstain it seems that the general consensus is that Ghost can count as his past of getting tortured by terrorist don't justify his crimes in the movie. Well time to get my write-up for him.

  • American Assassin: Ghost was once an assassin for Stan Hurley's black-ops unit Orion, before his reckless behavior nearly got the unit killed, forcing Hurley to abandon him. Becoming the psychopathic mercenary years later, he would retrieve plutonium from a group of arms dealers before killing the group as well as the police on his tail. When learning of Orion tailing him at a restaurant, Ghost kills one agent and murders countless of innocent people before making his escape. He would later murder Hurley's contact before kidnapping him, he would then torture Hurley for abandoning him. When Ghost's Iranian allies gives the components needed to make his nuclear bomb, Ghost kills them and reveals his plans to use the bomb to destroy the U.S. Navy's Sixth Fleet in an act to spite Hurley.

[down] As I previously said Ghost's reckless behavior nearly got Hurley and his unit killed which forced Hurley to abandon Ghost to save the rest of his unit. Hurley explains that Ghost was always a reckless, violent, and unstable man long before the terrorist captured and tortured him and calls Ghost out on his excuse, saying that his past doesn't justify his plans to murder thousands of innocent people to spite Hurley.

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 17th 2020 at 6:59:38 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#202006: Feb 17th 2020 at 8:45:37 PM

Could you elaborate more on Ghost’s past? Lighty said this needs more explanation than simply ‘doesn’t justify his actions’.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#202007: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:37:27 PM

@Beast: We also have up Lord Khassar

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202008: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:39:12 PM

[tup] to Haig picture

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202009: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:47:16 PM

Late [tup] to Ghost

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#202010: Feb 18th 2020 at 4:59:02 AM

I'm going to be busy at work for the next couple of days. So I won't be able to be here as often.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202011: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:10:17 AM

About Lord Zennon, I mentioned that he spent the series sending out his minions to do everything, and that he never really did anything himself. He never even fought Devilman. Because of this, I expressed concern about upvoting him, yet no one has really responded. As such, I am bringing this up again to make sure that we should actually be putting Zenon up.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#202012: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:25:58 AM

Being a Non-Action Big Bad doesn't automatically disqualify a candidate to my knowledge. Otherwise, I would have never gotten the CEO up.

Then again, the CEO directly finances inhumane experiments for profit, willfully sends employees to their deaths, and treats his employees like trash.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 18th 2020 at 10:35:38 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#202013: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:41:23 AM

Yeah, that's a non-issue there N. A villain doesn't have to fight to be heinous.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202014: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:42:05 AM

[up] I know that- otherwise I would not have bothered with Duke Nagi. But even he is shown to manipulate others into doing what he wants, instead of just ordering them, and he does shoot Sergey. Zenon relies on his minions to do everything. All the evil actions are done by the minions.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202015: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:44:33 AM

[up]First off, i answered to you. Second, i laid down everything about this in my EP. Third, i say this again, Zennon directly encourages, orders and influences actions of ALL demons in the show, to the point of giving them instructions and resources of committing atrocities and bringing death and destruction. The fact that he doesn't fight Devilman means nothing, if all demons Devilman fights, kill and destroy everything on Earth to begin with because of Zennon.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 18th 2020 at 6:52:05 PM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#202016: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:46:37 AM

If he's the one deliberately causing the minions to do the heinous actions, then again, it's a non-issue

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202017: Feb 18th 2020 at 7:48:00 AM

...Okay, sorry. Just wanted to be sure. [tup] Zenon-sama. If he actually gives detailed instructions to kill people and such, that is different. I thought he just told them to kill Devilman and the minions themselves thought up the plans and decided to kill people. It has been a while since I saw the show.

I did want an incarnation of Zenon up, and since the Slum King was disqualified, I really do want this one to make the cut. I just wanted to be absolutely sure. Playing Devil's Advocate, so to speak.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 18th 2020 at 7:58:59 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202018: Feb 18th 2020 at 8:14:16 AM

By the way, ~Very Vile Villain, any other characters from the anime that qualify besides Zennon? For instance, Magler/Magdora kills Lala, a major character, causes an apocalyptic event by bringing forth a bunch of volcanoes and a meteor shower, and generally seems to be an Expy of recurring CM Jinmen.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 18th 2020 at 8:17:53 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#202019: Feb 18th 2020 at 8:25:57 AM

Don’t really see how this spiralled into a litany of posts on something that looks easily inferred. Yes to Zennon.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202020: Feb 18th 2020 at 8:33:20 AM

There was an excellent post I read from a long time ago that summarized situations like this. Ill paraphrase do to bad memory.

"Would Tarkin having Alderaan destroyed not be enough unless he was personally pushing the Buttons?"

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 18th 2020 at 6:33:46 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#202021: Feb 18th 2020 at 8:53:45 AM

Yes, I know. I apologize for dragging this out.

Also, given the number of keepers, should we make a Devilman page?

Edited by MasterN on Feb 18th 2020 at 8:58:58 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#202022: Feb 18th 2020 at 9:28:21 AM

It might not hurt. I think Lighty's also gonna do Grimoire!Jinmen.

FWIW, we had one before it was merged. Here was the header, image, and quote:

Even in the Crapsack World of Devilman, these characters are notable for their evil.

"Humans are my nourishment. For a demon, it is not a crime to eat living beings....However...killing other living beings is a sin! Isn't it? That's why I ate them without killing them!...Kah Kah Kah Kah! Don't you think they're happy to have been eaten by me?!!!"
Jinmen, original manga

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/jinmen.png
""Each one represents an ETERNITY OF SUFFERING AND MISERY! I LOVE to hear them suffering...even if you do it slowly, don't ya think?"

Though, before Amon was disqualified, we had this:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/vlcsnapshot_458899.jpg
Amon, the Demon God Of War.

Edited by ACW on Feb 18th 2020 at 12:52:49 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#202023: Feb 18th 2020 at 9:52:58 AM

Also, Polar said that while he might come back one day, to consider him retired. He said he didn't feel welcome here anymore.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#202024: Feb 18th 2020 at 9:57:57 AM

I like the Amon one, though I’m definitely biased due to the better image quality.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#202025: Feb 18th 2020 at 9:59:08 AM

By the way, ~Very Vile Villain, any other characters from the anime that qualify besides Zennon? For instance, Magler/Magdora kills Lala, a major character, causes an apocalyptic event by bringing forth a bunch of volcanoes and a meteor shower, and generally seems to be an Expy of recurring CM Jinmen.

I don't know. He did this on Zennon's orders and several other demons tried to bring the end of all life on Earth on Zennon's orders.

[up][up]I don't feel like there should be both quote and image from the same keeper. I might propose image of Cadney for replacement. And i suggest we replace header for something like this

"Even in a world full of man eating demons, mass murders and rapists, where nearly all sides have an evil side to them, the following few stand out"


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