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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#201976: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:44:06 AM

[tup] Watts (don't forget that he also gave Cinder Penny's blueprints during the infiltration of Beacon, and also set up Lionheart's Huntsman/Huntress genocide and the Battle of Haven).

[tdown] Indominous

Edited by SumDumNerd on Feb 17th 2020 at 10:23:44 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201977: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:44:47 AM

The Raptors in JP 1 killed for fun, too. The Big One sure as heck did.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#201978: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:46:04 AM

We also have Jarek, comic reboot!Rex and Mr. Henry Phage as examples of dinosaurs as monsters.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201979: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:47:59 AM

[up] All those dinosaurs speak English and have the same intelligence level as a human. The Jurassic Park dinosaurs are just wild animals and there's no indication they have much more intelligence than your average real-life wolf or lion. That's the difference

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 17th 2020 at 11:51:22 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#201980: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:48:55 AM

I don't think anyone is saying that dinosaurs who speak and talk in works can't be cms. But that isn't true of Jurassic park where they really are wild animals.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 17th 2020 at 11:51:43 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201981: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:50:33 AM

And the Indominus is bred to be violent, kept locked up and ha no idea how to interact save through violence.

How is the Indominus different from the crocodile in 'Rogue? The shark in Jaws? The Tsavo lions in The Ghost and the Darkness?''

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 17th 2020 at 11:51:36 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#201982: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:17:38 PM

We're having the I-Rex discussion again?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201983: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:27:31 PM

Anyone want to answer ImperialMajestyXO's question here? Because I am curious as well

Edited by Bullman on Feb 17th 2020 at 3:28:01 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#201984: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:29:01 PM

Sigh... first Lotso, now this? People never learn. Calling a mod.

Also, there is a search function. If you want to see if a character has been discussed, please use it.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 17th 2020 at 1:29:53 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#201985: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:33:41 PM

Hey all, I am somewhat back into the fray of finding these type of characters. I do have a question, is screen time a necessary factor in purposing characters?

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#201986: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:36:04 PM

[up]Yes; a character needs enough screen time to have a properly established personality, and if a character doesn't show up at all, they can't qualify.

TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#201987: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:41:04 PM

Ah, alright. Because Money Train was on Showtime yesterday and Chris Cooper's Torch only has a couple of scenes, two to my knowledge, where he roasts subway attendants alive. I don't know if he has much characterization other than That One Case for Snipes and Woody's characters, and his second scene & death leads into the third act of the film, letting the two of them get kicked off the force and rob the titular Money Train.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201988: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:43:20 PM

N, chill with the mod stuff. Not necessary

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#201989: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:46:30 PM

[up]Well, when that other troper brought up Lotso, I saw later that the post had been thumped, so I assume someone must have hollered a mod. I figured that was our policy. I apologize if I did something unnecessary.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#201990: Feb 17th 2020 at 1:59:15 PM

We also have One-Eye from Speckles: The Tarbosaurus as a non-talking dinosaur CM.

Edited by Mimic45 on Feb 17th 2020 at 11:05:30 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#201991: Feb 17th 2020 at 2:00:44 PM

[tdown] to I-Rex, we've already ruled her out for not have enough sentience to be considered and that she was deliberately made to be a weapon. Plus we also have the Jurassic Park film series on the Never Again List in case people were considering EPing characters from that series

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#201992: Feb 17th 2020 at 2:03:30 PM

Wouldn't be surprised if some fanfic had a version of the I. rex that qualified. But her canon self is a no-go.

Also, I'd like to ask again if Aldo from Battle for the Planet of the Apes was discussed.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 17th 2020 at 2:34:37 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#201993: Feb 17th 2020 at 2:39:28 PM

~ACW, I would like to change the first line of the Lan Asuka writeup to this:

[up] Apparently not. You may go ahead.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 17th 2020 at 2:40:51 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#201994: Feb 17th 2020 at 2:54:12 PM

Hard [tdown] to the I-Rex, I'm afraid. Much as I'd love the Jurassic Park series to get a canon CM in some work, that's not the case thus far. Maybe in the next film... unless the "Never Again" list entry covers the series in its entirety, past and future?

As for screen time being a qualifier, they have to at the least appear and show a personality, which is why the Big Bad of Snuff is a no-go because he's The Ghost. We've had some relatively minor villains pass the heinous standard despite limited screen time.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#201995: Feb 17th 2020 at 3:32:41 PM

The batch.

And the pending (minus Lighty's):

  • Bishop (Beast)
  • The Thirst (2006): Darius (Beast)
  • Nyarly (Beast)
  • Ghost (G-Editor)
  • The Lost Husband: A Weird Sherlock Holmes Adventure, by William Meikle: William Gatherford (Mir)
  • Brother Moriarty (Mir)
  • Dr. Venom (Ravok)
  • "A True Telling of the Terror that Came to Red Hook", by William Meikle: Dutchman (Scraggle)
  • Devilman stuff (VVV)
  • Gaslight Grotesque:
    • "The Best Laid Plans" by Robert Lauderdale: Moriarty (Mir)
    • "The Hand-Delivered Letter", by Simon Kurt Unsworth: Moriarty (Lighty)

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#201997: Feb 17th 2020 at 4:12:12 PM

[tdown]Indominus (Wish people would read the administrivia page before commenting)

Does Napoleon count in both the 1954 version & the 1999 miniseries? If so, should we add that to the Western Animation & Live Action TV pages or would that seem redundant?

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 17th 2020 at 4:13:07 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201998: Feb 17th 2020 at 4:14:51 PM

[up] He technically counts in the them. But they are pretty much the same as the book from my memory. So yeah that would be redundant.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 17th 2020 at 6:16:27 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#201999: Feb 17th 2020 at 4:16:19 PM

[up][up][up] Please add to the Drafts.

Also, a slight rewrite:

  • Imitation in Death: Niles Renquist is a misogynistic sociopath who so chafes under how he believes women oppress him that he turns to serial murder as an outlet. Sexually abusing his maid while loathing his wife and daughter, Renquist adopts the personas of past serial killers, including the Boston Strangler—using a broomstick to sexually assault his victim—Jack the Ripper, and Ted Bundy, attacking women to mimic his idols' MO. After killing multiple women, he plans to emulate a serial killer to torture and rape his victims, carving them into pieces while they are still alive, with Eve speculating he would have eventually killed his own little daughter sooner or later as well.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#202000: Feb 17th 2020 at 4:16:39 PM

[up][up]Well not technically the same, because Napoleon dies in both adaptations, but both have the same story so yeah, seems redundant.

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 17th 2020 at 4:20:45 AM


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