TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201951: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:16:12 AM

A dinosaur cannot be a CM because they are not intelligent enough to be aware that their actions are wrong. I feel like this point has been repeated in this thread dozens of times lmao

MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#201952: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:16:12 AM

[up][up]I actually meant mute sentient animals from live-action works like the Mako sharks from Deep Blue Sea or the Tsavo lions from The Ghost and the Darkness among others.

Edited by MovieFan2000 on Feb 17th 2020 at 10:25:03 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#201954: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:28:10 AM

The bottom line here is that an animal can be a CM if it shows various signs of sapience/sentience/what-have-you. It's a case-by-case situation. The Indominous Rex is one of those cases where she has a level of enhanced intelligence and sadism, but is still a predator doing what most predators locked up in a cage would do to get free.

Edited by Tyk5919 on Feb 17th 2020 at 1:29:56 PM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#201955: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:40:03 AM

[tdown] I-Rex. No new evidence and she's already on never again list.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201957: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:08:35 AM

Yeah, Indominus Rex...while being a vicious killer who displays sapience, it was locked up its entire life with no real ability to socialize or develop beyond being a killer.

DolphZ Since: Mar, 2019
#201958: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:13:09 AM

But that is what Owen thought. He didn't know she a sibling who she ate. May other dinosaurs even Rex were raised in isolation. But I-Rex was the only dinosaur who killed for sport. She is the evilest dinosaur in the franchise.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#201959: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:14:25 AM

[up] But there are no indications that she has the requisite sapience to qualify for this trope. My answer is still no.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#201960: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:15:45 AM

I think the others pointed out that even so, she's not sufficiently sentient/sapient to be capable of anything better.

[up][nja]

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 17th 2020 at 2:18:47 PM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201961: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:20:20 AM

[up][up][up] Evilest dinosaur in the franchise and showing some signs of intelligence while hunting (like many real-world animals also do) does not change the fact that she is a dinosaur, which means she is not intelligent enough to be able to distinguish right and wrong, which means she lacks moral agency and thus is not a Complete Monster.

This really isnt that complicated lol

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 17th 2020 at 11:23:57 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#201962: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:28:26 AM

I do remember us having some dinosaur keppers.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201963: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:29:44 AM

We do from the Land before Time novelization, but that doesn't at all mean I-Rex counts. So that's neither here nor there.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 17th 2020 at 1:33:12 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#201964: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:31:14 AM

@DolphZ Back when the movie came out, I was convinced she counted and would have agreed with you, but yeah, [tdown] to the Indominus for reasons already stated. Great villain though.

Speaking of Silva, he got turned over by M for going too far by hacking the Chinese, but he did it to please her and was genuinely upset when she was shot. So yeah, not touching that.

Ghidorah also counts in Godzilla: King of the Monsters since we get insight into his mind.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 17th 2020 at 12:03:39 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#201965: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:33:03 AM

Cats can display sadism too.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#201966: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:34:59 AM

[tdown] to Mashiro

And.......if I'm being honest [tup] to the Indominous rex.

The reason is, all the arguments against her, like how she's still just a dinosaur and such....well that's not really how the film itself plays it.

She isn't just intelligent, It's pointed out in the film itself that she's not killing for food just like some predator, she's just killing because she enjoys it.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 17th 2020 at 9:39:15 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201967: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:36:20 AM

the characters of Land Before Time are anthropomorphic and have full human intelligence, Jurassic Park dinosaurs are just wild animals. That's the difference/why the comparison is faulty.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#201968: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:37:23 AM

You know, the mentions of Koba a little back reminded me of something. Koba is an expy of Aldo from the original Planet of the Apes film series. Has he been discussed?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201969: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:37:33 AM

Cats kill because they enjoy it. Dolphins kill because they enjoy it. The Indominus is a killer because it was born and bred to be. It makes her a scary movie monster, not a CM. the Indominus knows no other way to interact with other living beings save by violence.

And thank you, Hoglet. LBT has dinosaurs talk. It's established the Sharpteeth have their own language and Sharptooth is not just a predator. He's a sadistic killer hunting down children to murder them over a grudge, long, LONG after most predator would stop chasing troublesome meals that wouldn't even afford that much nourishment.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 17th 2020 at 11:41:54 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201970: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:37:45 AM

[up][up][up] Dude I agree with you. I was just answering if we had any dinosaur CMs.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 17th 2020 at 1:38:53 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#201974: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:42:15 AM

I get that in the real world animals can do that, but Jurrasic world is a fictional movie and is not a realistic portrayal of animal biology(Wich I've seen people complain about actually)

The point of that scene was to show to the audience that the I-Rex behavior isn't natural.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 17th 2020 at 9:44:32 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#201975: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:42:31 AM

@Kylo: I hate to say this but quite alot of wild animals kill for fun too. Saying that predators just kill to eat is wrong as someone who studies biology.

[tdown]I Rex

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Total posts: 326,048
Top