During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Bill and Zennon
So, hmm, I know I'm late, but I just watched the entirety of Mindhunter, and I'm changing my vote to abstain on Williams. Age did an amazing EP, but his case is just too much of an Ambiguous Situation, which is solidified by the show's own epilogue: "As of 2019, none of the remaining 27 cases have been prosecuted".
Bill(not Cipher)
Late answer to the question about to what extent is Made of Evil disqualifying. Made of Evil is disqualifying when we have a situation where another Made of Evil character can choose to be good, or the character has enough free will to break free of it's original behavior and still be really evil.
That's why we re-evaluated the Sketsis in light of Age of Resistance, but why neither Aku nor any of the Old Gods qualify.
Edited by xie323 on Feb 16th 2020 at 3:03:32 AM
Bill Cole, Zennon, Nagi Di Artai & John Smith II
I'm seeing 13 yes, 4 no, and 2 abstain votes for Gustav. I think this is enough for a supermajority.
- High School Prodigies Have It Easy Even In Another World (anime and manga): Duke Oslo El Gustav is a wrathful zealot for the Freyjagard Empire's social darwinism, seeking to kill his citizens as tribute to Emperor Lindworm. In order to fatally starve his people, he enacts forced gentrification, bans agriculture via "cleanliness" laws, and levies heavy taxes. When a neighboring region revolts, Gustav uses a spell powered by unwilling spirits in an attempt to incinerate the rebels and the nobles who failed to stop them. Upon seeing the broken remains of his prized emperor statue, he converts several Blue Brigade soldiers into tortured flaming zombies as revenge. Worshiping the emperor as the embodiment of his ideology, Gustav dies wishing for his master to crush the world's "weaklings" underfoot.
Alright, by popular demand:
Who is Arthur Watts?
One of Salem's inner circle, and indeed, the closest thing she has to a right-hand, Watts is the smartest member of Salem's group. From what we know of his past, Watts is a former scientist of Atlas who was disgraced and later faked his death in 'The Paladin Incident.' Now, Watts later becomes associated with Salem, helping Cinder screw over Vale's security. He later recruits Leonardo Lionheart in the city of Haven as well.
Arriving in the city of Mantle in order to help overthrow it, Watts brings with him the serial killing psychopath and one of the inner circle's chief muscle, Tyrian Carrows...this is when an election is going on for City Council. Watts recruits the super wealthy and completely amoral Jacques Schnee to run against the popular Robyn Hill. At Robyn's supposed victory party, Watts contrives for Jacques' victory and has Tyrian murder multiple attendees to frame the android girl Penny Polendina for the attack and also breed distrust between the lands of Atlas and Mantle.
Using his brilliant hacking and viral programs? Watts uses the codes he's obtained from the others to shut down Mantle's heating grid in winter to condemn loads of people to freeze to death in order to help facilitate riots, with Tyrian providing the fire for the powder keg. This will also have the added benefit of negative emotions that can lure in Salem's Grimm armies, which are drawn to negativity, hoping to see Mantle wiped out.
General James Ironwood of Atlas manages to expose the truth with the team, Jacques Schnee arrested...Watts is tracked down by Ironwood, who takes him on and defeats him. Watts is sent to prison, and ends the season with the knowledge Salem is invading Atlas, ending with a sadistic grin as he knows the bloodshed is about to start...
Heinousness?
Now, he lacks some personal flourishes, but he does intend to freeze an entire city to kill loads of people and provoke a Grimm invasion, which is pretty equal on par with Cinder and Adam. I'd say he passes, even if his plan is less viscerally awful than some of Cinder's more vicious personal touches.
Mitigating Qualities?
Like Cinder, we don't know much of Arthur Watts'past really. Some hints are dropped, as Ironwood says he gave Watts everything he wanted, only for Watts to spit he sided with the scientist Pietro Polendina above him, and he was 'disgraced' somehow. He's not disloyal to Salem, but nothing has indicated he's devoted to her the way Tyrian is. Cinder is in it solely for her own advancement and power, while Watts seems to at least partially be motivated by retribution against Atlas for what they've done to him. But no, nothing I can think of that I'd consider truly mitigating here.
Conclusion?
While defeated, Watts still lives. Granted, the same is true of Cinder. I'd leave it up to the gang here if Watts passes so far....and I reiterate again? Salem is a no. No now, probably no forever.
I'm hoping to get four more FS villains up some time in the next year as they come too:
What is the Work?
Fanscription is a 2018 web series from Channel Awesome (SIGH) in which Walter Banasiak and Rob Walker go back and forth each episode changing a movie based on a What If? scenario that is meant to approach the story from a different perspective (on one occasion, Doug Walker handled the Mary Poppins Returns episode). The subject of this one is "What If Harley Quinn Was In Batman 89?
". Gee I wonder where this is going.
Who is he and what has he done?
The Joker, currently Jack Napier, is the enforcer of ailing Gotham crime boss Carl Grissom. Grissom seeks someone to take over and needs to know if Napier is too much of a psychotic loose canon. Thus, he sends Napier to his lover, mob therapist Dr. Harleen Quinzel for analysis (in place of Alicia and given portrayal by Lori Petty voiced by Aiyanna Wade). Grissom learns thanks to Lt. Eckhardt though that Napier and Harleen are having an affair and scares Harleen out while telling her they'll soon pretend the whole thing never happened.
A lot of what happened before is said to transpire with Grissom setting Napier up at Axis Chemicals and he gets dropped by Batman into the vat and becomes the Joker. The Joker then later reveals himself to Harleen, scars her (and possibly uses Smilex on her too) and twists her mind, turning her into Harley Quinn. During the Smilex commercial, the Joker also has Harley kill the guy "using Brand X". It's implied that the museum gassing and the Smilex poisonings still happen (also implied that the parade gassing and Bob's killing both still happen later too) and then when the Joker decides he wants Vicky Vale instead, he throws Harley off the balcony to her apparent death.
Harley survives and wearing a gas mask at the parade to protect and disguise herself, helps the Joker shoot down Batman's bat plane and then the Joker flees with Vicky to the top of the cathedral with Batman in pursuit. As the Joker dances with Vicky and Batman fights the Joker's men, Harley shows up and tries to shoot the Joker, enraged over all the abuse he put her through and attacks him and then tries to kill Vicky. Vicky fights back against her though and Batman goes after the Joker.
Batman and Vicky end up over the ledge again and while the Joker tries to escape by means of ladder and helicopter, Harley jumps on him and tries to force him off. The weight eventually causes the Joker to lose his grip. However, Batman snags Harley's leg with his grappling hook this time and while she is saved, the Joker once again falls to his death as before.
Heinous standard?
Grissom and Harley are given a little bit to do, but nowhere near as much compared to the Joker.
Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?
Don't make me laugh. Of course he doesn't.
Verdict?
Sixth one for FS now. I say
.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 16th 2020 at 8:42:37 AM
Yes to Joker having seen the episode. Abstain on Watts until I get caught up on the show.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadSomething minor yet notable that Watts also did was cause a bunch of traffic accidents and chaos as he's walking through Atlas to get to Ironwood. That alone likely killed and injured a bunch of people.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Okay I will switch to yes on Watts. I'm to busy to get caught up in any reasonable time. And he seems heinous enough.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Cynfawr is part of tales that are so old that it's a bit too muddled for me to confidently respond to that question. The only thing uncontested about him is that he seems to play some role in the historical (re: mythical and semi-mythical) lineage of Brythonic kings and is therefore regarded as an ancestor of King Arthur. I'd leave the Welsh association out of the Breton reference and stick to referring to it as either Breton or Celtic.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 16th 2020 at 10:38:42 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.