During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Conomor. I'd be fine with Watts getting an EP now.
@Lighty: Like this?
- Vaughan Kendalls is a sex offender and murderer of elven women who justifies his crimes by saying that elves aren't real people. When he appears in the City Elf origin story, Vaughan abducts the entire female half of a wedding party, including the protagonist if female, to be raped by him and his men. By the time the protagonist fights back, one woman has already been killed and the protagonist's cousin, Shianni, has already been raped by Vaughan and his friends. Unwilling to release his hostages, Vaughan instead tries to bribe the protagonist into letting him keep the women for the night. Such cruelty from Vaughan isn't an isolated incident either, as the DLC prequel Leliana's Song features an overheard conversation where Vaughan is preparing to rape/torture one of his maids over a floor stain.
Edited by falcontalons on Feb 15th 2020 at 5:46:51 AM
I do think that ACW's rewrite of the Lord Barnier entry was really good, but I think that something important was cut. He did definitely help make it shorter, though, which is great.
The House in Fata Morgana: Lord Jean-François Barnier is responsible for Morgana becoming the Big Bad. Barnier purchased her at 11 years old, first meeting her with a harem including underaged girls. For her holy saint's blood, Barnier restrains and cuts her for him and other members of the nobility to drink and, while she is restrained, tricks her into eating human flesh. Torturing and killing his own slaves at his leisure, Barnier routinely mocks Morgana to further break her, and when her health begins to deteriorate, simply tries to kill her. He also kills Ceren, the closest thing to a loved one he has, because she disobeyed his order simply for a chance to kill his attacker.
<DIE THE DEATH> <SENTENCE TO DEATH> <GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH>
to Ares, the Cunning Man, and Conomor
Now then here's Steinman's write-up
- BioShock/Total Drama crossover Total Drama Raptured: J.S. Steinman is a plastic surgeon who, like his canon self, becomes a serial killer obsessed with his own twisted idea of beauty and perfection. Arriving in Rapture, Steinman would begin to brutally mutilate and murder stray Splicers before he decides to kidnap innocent civilians to perform his surgeries on. During these processes he would use ADAM keep his victims alive and in pain for long periods of time, after slicing their faces off to keep as trophies. A large pile of Steinman's victims can be found at his Medical Pavilion by the time the teenagers, Cody, Courtney, Gwen, and Noah arrive there with one corpse on his operating table severely mutilated. Steinman also nearly kills the four teens several times and straps Gwen to his operating table where attempts to slice her face off before killing her.
By bad
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 15th 2020 at 4:31:58 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ares, Cunning Man and Conomor
As for folklore baddies? De Soulis abd Sawney Bean seem fine, but I'd hold off on Bathory since her folklore crimes are only slightly exaggerated from the real shit she did, and Gilles de Rais was actually convicted of various Satanist atrocities, whether or not he was framed.
Well, it's entirely possible Bathory was framed. After all, it's just convenient that a woman in authority was targeted by people who wanted her lands, but I digress. Ditto de Rais.
de Soulis and Sawney...it's hard to know where history ends and folklore begins. Sawney's said to be a real person (and de Soulis was) but...Sawney almost certainly wasn't any more than King Arthur in Geoffrey of Monmouth's histories conquered all of Europe
If there are any wicks for Those Two Bad Guys
in CM entries, it looks like the trope might be cut. Just a heads up.
Also, you may want to replace the wicks with Evil Duo where applicable.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 15th 2020 at 10:08:56 AM
@Imperial Majesty XO It was the bit about Ceren. Barnier killing Ceren is proof that he doesn't care about her that much and prevents it from being Evil Has Loved Ones
<DIE THE DEATH> <SENTENCE TO DEATH> <GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH>I'm with Ducky on the folklore surrounding real people thing. It’s not creative license so much as rumours spread by word of mouth.
I have messaged ACW regarding “Those Two Bad Guys” and the trope being cut, by the way.
That was written as historical fiction.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 15th 2020 at 1:17:11 PM
Cunning Man & Conomer (sorry for lack of imput, I just haven't been feeling an urge to post here right now)
question: can a villain Made of Evil still count as a CM, or is that out of the question?
Also, I would want to do an EP, but I kinda don't know where to look for potential candidates, any suggestions?
Wasn't that the case with Richard III
Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 15th 2020 at 9:54:02 AM

I'll read that tomorrow, but while I assume he goes under Myths and Legends, what kind of mythology is this?