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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201326: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:23:49 PM

I wouldn't be apposed to cutting Tengu Shredder. I don't really think he's heinous enough. Especially compared to Ch'rell.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:34:46 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201327: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:52:06 PM

I'm inclined to agree, even supporting the Councilor (and Tengu Shredder should go)...but Evans?

I don't think he's heinous enough for the DC-universe. He's a dick who kills some people, but...Kobra is a mass-murdering terrorist, Waller does evil and unethical things all the time, each member of the Suicide Squad often does very evil things and mass-murdering, street level hitmen are a dime a dozen. The only truly horrible thing I see in the EP is killing the adults in the orphanage and I don't think it's quite enough.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:01:45 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#201328: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:54:23 PM

I mean... Tengu tries to bring Hell on Earth, right? Sounds like like that'd be on a similar level to genocide.

That said, given Lighty's arguments, [tdown] Evans.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:55:17 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201329: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:13:38 PM

Let me also get this one up now after Scrags and I watched it:

What's the work?

The Resurrected is a film by Dan O'Bannon from 1991 and an adaptation of Lovecraft's The Case of Charles Dexter Ward...actually one of the better Lovecraft adaptations we've seen. Claire Ward is a suffering woman who hires James Marsh, PI, to look into her husband Charles who is acting very strange....

Namely his unexplained isolation in their carriage house, his sudden uncovering of his family history, and their visitation to an abandoned ancestral farmhouse near Pawtuxet where he uncovered the painting of a man named Joseph Curwen, and also how strangely hungry he's been. March begins investigating and uncovers some very disturbing fact about Joseph Curwen...

Who is Curwen?

Despite supposedly descending from Ezra Ward, Charles is in truth descended from Curwen whose pregnant lover Eliza fled him to marry Ezra when Curwen became stranger and stranger....a sinister necromancer, sorcerer and cultist, Curwen plunged into the realms of darkness and monstrosity, sacrificing people in dark rituals and taking others to experiment upon...changing them into horrific monstrosities with agonized existences. When one of his creations was found and burnt alive, the local leaders rallied to stop Curwen and killed him.

However, sensing his own death approaching, Curwen paid the local mortician with instructions on how to handle his remains. Knowing one of his descendants would seek him out, he left instructions and eventually, Charles resurrected him. Curwen soon murdered Charles to take his place, while resuming his dark work in understanding life and death. The side effects of revival, by the by, give him a horrific hunger. Ostensibly dealing with it by eating meat/drinking blood from a slaughterhouse? In truth, Curwen sets upon several innocents and eats them alive so that people believe they've been torn apart by animals. Claire has 'Charles' committed, with Curwen biding his time...March investigates things, and...discovers some true horrors.

Curwen has experimented with people in horrific Body Horror, fusing them into agonized abominations in the tunnels of his old home. One of March's companions is killed and March bombs the tunnel to escape, fleeing to confront Curwen in the asylum who reveals his work in breaching the veil beyond life and death...breaking out of his straightjacket, Curwen decides he's going to kill March when an orderly shows up. Curwen disables the man and rips his head off before trying to eat Ward alive, saying he plans to fake insanity, then fake being 'cured' later...and then he's going to eat Claire, continue his work and go on his merry way.

However....March brings along Charles's bones and using the necromantic rituals, revives Charles, who is furious at great-great granddad. Charles rips Curwen's skin off, dragging him into death as March leaves with life and sanity intact.

Heinousness?

Not an omnicidal maniac but...a mass murdering, cannibalistic, torturing cultist with a izable body count. Curwen's a monster and the only villain here. The body horror stuff just sealed it.

Mitigating Qualities?

No care for anyone or anything here. Curwen is sadistic, cruel and calculating. He had no care for Eliza, has zero care for Charles, Claire or anyone else. All he factors out of life is his research and he doesn't give a fuck who he hurts or kills.

Conclusion?

an easy yes to Chris sarandon Curwen

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201330: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:15:45 PM

Switching to no on Evans.

Yes to Curwen.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#201331: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:17:35 PM

[tup] Curwen. So what is the best Lovecraft-based adaptation (aside from this movie)?

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:20:15 AM

It's Spooky Month!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#201332: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:19:38 PM

An easy yes to Cannibal Curwen (which, incidentally, is a death metal band waiting to happen).

Animeking1108 Since: Jan, 2010
#201333: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:26:05 PM

I finished the Monster trilogy, which is the Sequel Series to Gone. Drake Merwin returns, and he's given more scummy acts. Are his additional crimes going to require an effort post?

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#201336: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:29:59 PM

King: I'd say no. This is something where a new entry can just be put up. Drake go down permanently?

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#201338: Feb 11th 2020 at 6:45:04 PM

[tup] to Curwin.

Any other thoughts on this image of Mr. Haig from Steel Annual #1?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#201339: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:27:50 PM

Yes to Curwen and with a bit of research, here's a Sakaki rewrite:

  • .hack//G.U.: Sakaki—real name Tooru Uike—is a brilliant, sociopathic ten-year-old who slips from wanting to use AIDA for the benefit of mankind, to a revenge-driven, would be tyrant as his hatred of Hasao consumes him. Infecting his followers with AIDA to bend them to his will, Sakaki strings along one suicidal girl by playing to her insecurities and even uses AIDA to mentally assault her and bring out the power of her Epitaph. Enraged by his losses, Sakaki allows himself to be infected with AIDA and in his frenzy puts together a tournament in which players must kill each other for his own blood-thirst.

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#201341: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:46:51 PM

[tup] Curwen

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#201342: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:51:24 PM

[tup]the Councilor and Joseph Curwen

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:51:46 PM

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#201343: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:56:32 PM

[tup] to Curwinen. [tdown] to second Deadshot

Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Feb 11th 2020 at 9:56:49 AM

I have no idea what I am doing
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201345: Feb 11th 2020 at 8:38:44 PM

Okay with 7 [tup]s and 2 [tdown]s here's the Councilor's write up.

  • The Councilor, from season 4's Trouble with Augie, is the leader of the lizard race known as the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood are a race of interdimensonal conquers known for eating entire species. Years ago the Councilor lead his people in the complete slaughter of the Zodats. After the Zodats destroy their teleporter as a last resort to stop the Brotherhood, the Councilor tricks Professor August "Augie" O'Neil into repairing it. When April and Donatello reveal it's an act, the Councilor forces Augie to finish fixing the teleporter, with plans to do to the human race what he did to the Zodats. The Councilor's final act is to abandon his army to die and try escape his impending death.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 10:44:00 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201346: Feb 11th 2020 at 8:44:21 PM

Decided I'd throw my hat in the ring with my first EP on a character I've thought fit this trope for a long time:

Lady of the Green Kirtle - Chronicles of Narnia

What’s the Work?

Narnia is a children’s fantasy series by C.S. Lewis, known for the protagonists traveling between the medieval fantasy land of Narnia and 20th century England, the use of Narnia Time, a very opinionated Lemony Narrator, and very, very strong Christian themes to the point where it’s basically an allegory.

The character I’m proposing only appears in the 4th book (by publication order, not chronologically), The Silver Chair. After the events of the third book, Narnia is left with The Good King Caspian having just married The Good Queen and all seems well and ideal. But of course, that’s where our villain comes in.

Who is the Lady of the Green Kirtle?

The Green Lady (going to call her that for the rest of this because they also call her that in the book and it’s shorter) invades Narnia from an unknown land, and is intent on conquering it by any means necessary. She’s an incredibly powerful witch who specializes in mind control and hypnosis, and that’s all the personal info we get on her.

She starts her plan by brainwashing thousands of gnomes into being her slave labor, building her an underground lair and killing anyone that comes near it. She has these thousands of otherwise good gnomes brainwashed into brain-dead slaves for at least a decade. After that, her plan is set into motion:

Transforming into a snake, she murders The Good Queen by biting her. The Prince Rillian vows to avenge his mother and sets off to kill the snake, to where she kidnaps him, brainwashes him, and gives him plenty of Cold-Blooded Torture (not on-screen but described in enough detail to where it’s not Offscreen Villainy, until he forgets who he is and becomes another braindead servant of hers. Her plan is to wait until the (griefstriken at the loss of his wife and son) King Caspian dies, then show up with the Prince and claim the throne with him as her Puppet King.

Luckily before that happens our heroic trio of Eustance Scrubb, Jill Pole, and Puddleglum are off to rescue the Prince. Right in the beginning of their journey the Green Witch pretends to be a harmless traveler and meets up with the heroes to give them “directions” to a pack of giants she’s aligned with. Turns out these giants actually eat human flesh, and the Power Trio escape just through the stroke of luck.

One thing leads to another and they eventually sneak into her lair and are able to break Prince Rillian of the brainwashing. Just as they succeed in that, the Green Lady finds them and performs her brainwashing magic on the heroes, trying to enchant them into believing that all their memories of the outside world were just a dream and they are simply more mindless slaves of hers. She has a Near-Villain Victory because the brainwashing almost works, but Puddleglum’s cynicism allows him to break through it and say that he’s not going to obey her regardless of if the outside world is real or not, which allows the others to all break the enchantment too. She then has a Villainous Breakdown, goes One-Winged Angel into a massive green dragon, and after a fight scene the Prince karmically kills her, which frees all her gnome slaves from their brainwashing too.

Heinousness?

The main argument I can see against her inclusion is that she doesn’t meet the heinous factor, especially with another Narnia villain, Jadis, already being a CM and her having a much higher body count.

My argument against that is that Jadis’s most evil act (genociding her planet to prevent being overthrown) is entirely Offscreen Villainy and it’s only heavily implied. On the other hand, everything the Lady of the Green Kirtle does is either directly on screen or described in detail.

And in terms of what’s shown onscreen, there’s no question that the Green Lady tops it for the series. Murdering a heroic character from the previous book, kidnapping another and torturing him for years, brainwashing thousands of innocent people into being her slave labor for decades, manipulating the heroes (two of which are teenagers) into nearly getting eaten by cannibal giants, and nearly coming close to brainwashing the protagonists into more slave labor and using them to take over Narnia. For a children’s series I think that is easily heinous enough to qualify as a CM.

Mitigating Qualities?

Absolutely zero, which makes sense considering she’s a clear Satanic Archetype and this is a Christian allegory. She pretends to be affable and kindly for a while, but this is clearly just a ruse to further the brainwashing and the moment the spell is broken she drops the facade and goes full Ax-Crazy. She is also by far the least humanized out of any Narnia villain; even Jadis was given a fairly detailed backstory and relationships with some of the heroes. The Green Lady simply wants to brainwash, enslave, and conquer and we’re given no info about her other than those qualities.

Verdict?

I think she’s absolutely a keeper.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 11th 2020 at 11:30:46 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#201347: Feb 11th 2020 at 8:48:17 PM

We have descriptions of Charn's destruction. Diggory and his friend actually saw the destroyed civilization in Magician's Nephew. So not completely offscreen.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201348: Feb 11th 2020 at 8:49:12 PM

[up] I recall it only being alluded to and not outright described but I haven't read Narnia in years so I could be mistaken on that count.

Regardless though the rest of my EP still stands.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#201349: Feb 11th 2020 at 9:27:06 PM

[tup]councillor, Curwen

[tdown]Deadshot

I wouldn't mind cutting tengu Tbh.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#201350: Feb 11th 2020 at 9:27:38 PM

Yes to the Councilor. Could go either way on Tengu Shredder


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