During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
This may be a paraphrase:
- Prison Cop: "Antoine Sartain. Yeah I remember him. Smooth, suave, psycho. Believed he could get whatever he wanted."
Same with this one:
- "Klepto was just a two-bit thug, he won't be missed. These two guys? They didn't matter to anyone. But you send them into an open nightclub and they cap four guys? That's a different story."-Leroy Wassley to Antoine Sartain about his victims, Hollywood Homicide
EDIT: Two quotes for the record. Editing issue.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 11th 2020 at 12:51:58 PM
Shouldn't Costello's entry label him as Francis "Frank" Costello (that's his full name)? I took the liberty:
- The Departed: Francis "Frank" Costello is an Irish mob boss who controls Boston's organized crime. He uses his power to commit murders with impunity, laughing at how one of his victims fell over in flashback. In the present day, Costello has some government microprocessors stolen so he can con the Chinese government, killing his thief to cover it up. Soon after, he sends much-abused goon Colin Sullivan to infiltrate the Boston PD, threatening to have his girlfriend raped if he fails. When policeman Billy Costigan infiltrates Costello's mob, he tortures him to see if he's still a cop before killing a couple of his own men and sending Billy to torture and murder locals who don't pay their protection money. After Costello is assassinated, it's revealed that he ordered all his records given to the police upon his death, intending his entire gang to be taken down with him.
Strange that Sabrina now has three (formerly four) while Riverdale still has yet to score. Also strange to think that Katy Keene is in the same universe as both these shows too.
I didn't mean to overstep if I did. I apologize.
EDIT: I also changed Costigan to Billy.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 11th 2020 at 3:18:20 AM
What's the work?
Suicide Squad Most Wanted: Deadshot and Katana is a limited series in the Suicide Squad franchise starring the titular two characters. Deadshot's story revolves around him trying to recover his daughter Suchin from foster care and being replaced by Will Evans, Deadshot II... Who will be today's subject for Complete Monsterdom.
Who is Deadshot II? What does he do?
Will Evans is a freelance assassin brought in by Amanda Waller to join the Suicide Squad. In the past, his family was killed when drug dealers opened fire in the next apartment, causing their stray bullets to pierce through the walls and gun everyone but him down. Growing up to be a violent child, he eventually took up work as a freelance assassin, where he eventually met Floyd Lawton, his predecessor, in lockup. When Deadshot gave him advice on excelling in assassination, Evans became determined to succeed him.
After being recruited by Waller for the Suicide Squad, he was teamed up with Deadshot to abduct the daughter of a cartel boss, only for Deadshot to go AWOL and leave Evans to improvise his way through the job himself. When the rest of the Squad corner Deadshot in his family's manor, Harley Quinn convinces him to come back, only for Evans to fire wildly at him as soon as he's out in the open. Waller decides to retire Lawton and have Evans step up as the new Deadshot, a decision she would very quickly regret.
On his first mission as Deadshot II, Evans and the rest of the Squad are tasked with capturing a band of cartel bosses associated with the Red Marketplace. Evans, however, has plans of his own, and compromises the mission by killing their targets. When the rest of the team try to stop him, he gravely injures Santana and kills Olivia before blowing up the rest of the marks without opposition.
Going rogue, he returns to work as a freelance assassin where he learns from one of his clients that the original Deadshot had escaped from Bell Reve, causing the client to reduce the pay. Enraged, Evans murders his client and vows to finish Lawton off. He begins his plan by storming an orphanage and slaughtering all of the adults inside, before kidnapping Suchin. Leaving a note for Lawton, the two confront each other on an island where Evans reveals that he's strapped a bomb to Suchin, threatening to blow her up unless Lawton faces him in a duel where each use the same equipment. When Lawton does end up breaking the rules to catch Evans by surprise, he spends his final moments taunting Lawton about how Suchin will follow him to his grave before Lawton shoots him in the face and tackles him off the structure they're fighting on to his death.
Heinousness?
The nature of the Suicide Squad makes this a bit difficult to say. Cheetah and Captain Boomerang were fine with killing everyone until Harley and Waller pointed out that they had bombs in their necks. Would Hurt a Child is at play here thanks to the entire situation with Suchin, and other members of the Squad are shown to be appalled by his disregard for following orders. It's worth mentioning that in a Squad consisting of villains that need bombs in their necks to be kept under control, Waller thinks it was a mistake to replace Lawton with Evans, which is meaningful coming from someone who's far from a saint herself.
As a standalone entry, Evans is way more evil compared to King Kobra, the Big Bad of Katana's half of the series. King Kobra is established to genuinely love Lady Eve, and ends it trying to bring her back after her soul is sucked into Katana's blade. In the same two issues this unfolds, Deadshot II is murdering a bunch of orphanage caretakers and strapping a bomb to a child just to prove he is better than Lawton.
Mitigating Qualities?
Evans's Freudian Excuse is that his family was gunned down by accident in front of him, which caused him to become progressively more violent growing up, but he never really looks back on them with fondness, and they have little to do with the various sins he commits throughout his time in the comic; He murdered the Red Marketplace bosses because they wouldn't let him leave their circle in the past, and went after Suchin because of how badly he wanted to surpass the original Deadshot. Ultimately, despite his Freudian Excuse, his actions aren't at all related to it, and are driven by grudges of varying degrees of pettiness.
Verdict?
Would Hurt a Child, Psycho for Hire, Team Killer, and general mass murderer of innocents. I'd give Deadshot II a probable
.
Okay here is one of two TMNT characters Vile recommend to me. I watched the episode with my aunt do to it being her birthday.
What's the work?
The 2000s TMNT show (my favorite version) already has a few keepers. So I will just tell about the episode. "Trouble with Augie" is the 18th episode of the 4th season of this highly underrated show. It fallows Donatello and April as they travel to another dimension to help April's missing uncle Professor August "Augie" O'Neil. What they find is a mysteriously nice race of lizard people known as the Brotherhood, which is lead by the Councilor. However not all is what it seems.
What has the Councilor done?
The Councilor is the leader of the Brotherhood, the Councilor leads his people in conquering dimensions and devouring the inhabitants for years. One such race is the Zodats, who the Brotherhood tricked into thinking they were friendly and then the Councilor lead the invasion. Killing their whole race and laying their bones in the Forbidden Zone. However as a last act of defiance, the Zodats destroyed their own dimensional teleporter and trap the Brotherhood there.
After Augie arrived, the Councilor tricked him into believing that they are a peaceful and into helping rebuild the teleporter. With the Councilor planning to conquer Earth and devour all humans. When Donatello and April arrive and discover it's all an act, the Councilor drops the nice guy act and outright force Augie to finish fixing the teleporter or he kill all three of them. After seeing the recording of their previous slaughter and the bones of the killed, the three manage to trick the Brotherhood into accidentally going to the dimension run by Giant Wasps. The Councilor is last seen trying to escape and leave the rest of his army behind, before being eaten by the Wasp Queen.
Heinous standard?
For a monster of the week with only one episode, I would say so. We see the slaughter and bones of a whole species. With the Councilor making it clear that he plans to do it to earth and many more.
Other factors?
Okay he's not the most interesting character in the show. However I feel he shows just enough personality and independence. He can lay in the charm and pretend to be peaceful for years to get what he wants. He abandons his army to save his skin and is very sadistic when it comes to killing. He wants to conquer worlds not feed his people. He makes sure to be clear that he is all about the conquering several times.
Conclusion?
I leave that up to you.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:35:14 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadAs for Deadshot II I'm leaning yes. The heinous standard makes me pause though.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:37:22 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread![]()
I get that. I'm just happy to have EP'ed something from one of my favorite franchises.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:47:12 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread@Scraggle: Oh yeah we see evidence. We see a whole bunch of skeletons (in something right out of the Ego reveal) and a video tape of the slaughter. And the Councilor says he plans to do it again right out.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:06:45 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadACW: Any opinion on the Councilor.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:17:21 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadI was opposed to Tengu Shredder being listed from the start on the basis his actions weren't in the same ball park as Ch'rell's (and I repeat resources should not be a factor as Tengu Shredder is a demon capable of reducing the entire planet into a hellish wasteland), with nowhere near the focus on the lives lost or visceral atrocity Ch'rell's actions were given. On top of that, we have at least three other comparatively minor villains now that have attempted the annihilation of all humanity.
The only one I really have any issue with being on the trope right now is Tengu Shredder. Less so with the others, I suppose, but I retain reservations given how dark this series could get on a regular basis.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:22:19 AM

Quote for Sartain (got two more for him too):
Trying to avoid TV for a month starting today. I'll still be going to the movies though because that's not the same thing. So yeah, I'll be seeing Fantasy Island soon. If not Friday, definitely this weekend.
On another note, Birds of Prey's title is gonna be changed to Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 11th 2020 at 12:03:15 PM