TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#201301: Feb 11th 2020 at 11:50:26 AM

Quote for Sartain (got two more for him too):

Joe Gavilan: "Are you telling me that Antoine Sartain had his own groups killed because they wanted to go out on their own?"
Olivia Robideaux: "Sends a powerful message to anyone even thinking about breaking a contract."

Trying to avoid TV for a month starting today. I'll still be going to the movies though because that's not the same thing. So yeah, I'll be seeing Fantasy Island soon. If not Friday, definitely this weekend.

On another note, Birds of Prey's title is gonna be changed to Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey.

[down], [down][down] I have a better one. I need to remember it first though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 11th 2020 at 12:03:15 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#201303: Feb 11th 2020 at 11:55:35 AM

Don't like it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#201305: Feb 11th 2020 at 12:41:37 PM

This may be a paraphrase:

Prison Cop: "Antoine Sartain. Yeah I remember him. Smooth, suave, psycho. Believed he could get whatever he wanted."

Same with this one:

"Klepto was just a two-bit thug, he won't be missed. These two guys? They didn't matter to anyone. But you send them into an open nightclub and they cap four guys? That's a different story."
-Leroy Wassley to Antoine Sartain about his victims, Hollywood Homicide

EDIT: Two quotes for the record. Editing issue.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 11th 2020 at 12:51:58 PM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#201308: Feb 11th 2020 at 1:16:43 PM

Not feeling the quotes. If first on is a prime quote for both Corrupt Corporate Executive and Disproportionate Retribution, though

I have no idea what I am doing
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#201309: Feb 11th 2020 at 2:38:15 PM

Shouldn't Costello's entry label him as Francis "Frank" Costello (that's his full name)? I took the liberty:

  • The Departed: Francis "Frank" Costello is an Irish mob boss who controls Boston's organized crime. He uses his power to commit murders with impunity, laughing at how one of his victims fell over in flashback. In the present day, Costello has some government microprocessors stolen so he can con the Chinese government, killing his thief to cover it up. Soon after, he sends much-abused goon Colin Sullivan to infiltrate the Boston PD, threatening to have his girlfriend raped if he fails. When policeman Billy Costigan infiltrates Costello's mob, he tortures him to see if he's still a cop before killing a couple of his own men and sending Billy to torture and murder locals who don't pay their protection money. After Costello is assassinated, it's revealed that he ordered all his records given to the police upon his death, intending his entire gang to be taken down with him.

Strange that Sabrina now has three (formerly four) while Riverdale still has yet to score. Also strange to think that Katy Keene is in the same universe as both these shows too.

[down]I didn't mean to overstep if I did. I apologize.

EDIT: I also changed Costigan to Billy.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 11th 2020 at 3:18:20 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#201310: Feb 11th 2020 at 2:41:28 PM

As the guy who wrote the entry? Sure.

Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#201311: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:00:08 PM

What's the work?

Suicide Squad Most Wanted: Deadshot and Katana is a limited series in the Suicide Squad franchise starring the titular two characters. Deadshot's story revolves around him trying to recover his daughter Suchin from foster care and being replaced by Will Evans, Deadshot II... Who will be today's subject for Complete Monsterdom.

Who is Deadshot II? What does he do?

Will Evans is a freelance assassin brought in by Amanda Waller to join the Suicide Squad. In the past, his family was killed when drug dealers opened fire in the next apartment, causing their stray bullets to pierce through the walls and gun everyone but him down. Growing up to be a violent child, he eventually took up work as a freelance assassin, where he eventually met Floyd Lawton, his predecessor, in lockup. When Deadshot gave him advice on excelling in assassination, Evans became determined to succeed him.

After being recruited by Waller for the Suicide Squad, he was teamed up with Deadshot to abduct the daughter of a cartel boss, only for Deadshot to go AWOL and leave Evans to improvise his way through the job himself. When the rest of the Squad corner Deadshot in his family's manor, Harley Quinn convinces him to come back, only for Evans to fire wildly at him as soon as he's out in the open. Waller decides to retire Lawton and have Evans step up as the new Deadshot, a decision she would very quickly regret.

On his first mission as Deadshot II, Evans and the rest of the Squad are tasked with capturing a band of cartel bosses associated with the Red Marketplace. Evans, however, has plans of his own, and compromises the mission by killing their targets. When the rest of the team try to stop him, he gravely injures Santana and kills Olivia before blowing up the rest of the marks without opposition.

Going rogue, he returns to work as a freelance assassin where he learns from one of his clients that the original Deadshot had escaped from Bell Reve, causing the client to reduce the pay. Enraged, Evans murders his client and vows to finish Lawton off. He begins his plan by storming an orphanage and slaughtering all of the adults inside, before kidnapping Suchin. Leaving a note for Lawton, the two confront each other on an island where Evans reveals that he's strapped a bomb to Suchin, threatening to blow her up unless Lawton faces him in a duel where each use the same equipment. When Lawton does end up breaking the rules to catch Evans by surprise, he spends his final moments taunting Lawton about how Suchin will follow him to his grave before Lawton shoots him in the face and tackles him off the structure they're fighting on to his death.

Heinousness?

The nature of the Suicide Squad makes this a bit difficult to say. Cheetah and Captain Boomerang were fine with killing everyone until Harley and Waller pointed out that they had bombs in their necks. Would Hurt a Child is at play here thanks to the entire situation with Suchin, and other members of the Squad are shown to be appalled by his disregard for following orders. It's worth mentioning that in a Squad consisting of villains that need bombs in their necks to be kept under control, Waller thinks it was a mistake to replace Lawton with Evans, which is meaningful coming from someone who's far from a saint herself.

As a standalone entry, Evans is way more evil compared to King Kobra, the Big Bad of Katana's half of the series. King Kobra is established to genuinely love Lady Eve, and ends it trying to bring her back after her soul is sucked into Katana's blade. In the same two issues this unfolds, Deadshot II is murdering a bunch of orphanage caretakers and strapping a bomb to a child just to prove he is better than Lawton.

Mitigating Qualities?

Evans's Freudian Excuse is that his family was gunned down by accident in front of him, which caused him to become progressively more violent growing up, but he never really looks back on them with fondness, and they have little to do with the various sins he commits throughout his time in the comic; He murdered the Red Marketplace bosses because they wouldn't let him leave their circle in the past, and went after Suchin because of how badly he wanted to surpass the original Deadshot. Ultimately, despite his Freudian Excuse, his actions aren't at all related to it, and are driven by grudges of varying degrees of pettiness.

Verdict?

Would Hurt a Child, Psycho for Hire, Team Killer, and general mass murderer of innocents. I'd give Deadshot II a probable [tup].

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201312: Feb 11th 2020 at 3:38:09 PM

Okay here is one of two TMNT characters Vile recommend to me. I watched the episode with my aunt do to it being her birthday.

What's the work?

The 2000s TMNT show (my favorite version) already has a few keepers. So I will just tell about the episode. "Trouble with Augie" is the 18th episode of the 4th season of this highly underrated show. It fallows Donatello and April as they travel to another dimension to help April's missing uncle Professor August "Augie" O'Neil. What they find is a mysteriously nice race of lizard people known as the Brotherhood, which is lead by the Councilor. However not all is what it seems.

What has the Councilor done?

The Councilor is the leader of the Brotherhood, the Councilor leads his people in conquering dimensions and devouring the inhabitants for years. One such race is the Zodats, who the Brotherhood tricked into thinking they were friendly and then the Councilor lead the invasion. Killing their whole race and laying their bones in the Forbidden Zone. However as a last act of defiance, the Zodats destroyed their own dimensional teleporter and trap the Brotherhood there.

After Augie arrived, the Councilor tricked him into believing that they are a peaceful and into helping rebuild the teleporter. With the Councilor planning to conquer Earth and devour all humans. When Donatello and April arrive and discover it's all an act, the Councilor drops the nice guy act and outright force Augie to finish fixing the teleporter or he kill all three of them. After seeing the recording of their previous slaughter and the bones of the killed, the three manage to trick the Brotherhood into accidentally going to the dimension run by Giant Wasps. The Councilor is last seen trying to escape and leave the rest of his army behind, before being eaten by the Wasp Queen.

Heinous standard?

For a monster of the week with only one episode, I would say so. We see the slaughter and bones of a whole species. With the Councilor making it clear that he plans to do it to earth and many more.

Other factors?

Okay he's not the most interesting character in the show. However I feel he shows just enough personality and independence. He can lay in the charm and pretend to be peaceful for years to get what he wants. He abandons his army to save his skin and is very sadistic when it comes to killing. He wants to conquer worlds not feed his people. He makes sure to be clear that he is all about the conquering several times.

Conclusion?

I leave that up to you.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:35:14 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201313: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:32:59 PM

As for Deadshot II I'm leaning yes. The heinous standard makes me pause though.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:37:22 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#201314: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:36:48 PM

No to the TMNT villain. I think Shredder and others do too much for anyone else to count. Abstain on the Suicide Squad villain.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#201315: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:43:48 PM

slight [tup] to Deadshot 2 but [tdown] to Councilor

just a heads up, in recent days I haven't been feeling an urge to do anything on this thread. I think I'll just pop in every once in a while, but I won't be an active member

Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 11th 2020 at 4:44:01 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201316: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:44:16 PM

[up][up] I get that. I'm just happy to have EP'ed something from one of my favorite franchises.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:47:12 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#201318: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:00:50 PM

Yeah, if we see direct evidence of a prior genocide and we see intention for further? I'd say "yes" to the Councilor. And it strengthens my opinion that some of the already-listed characters on that show like the Tengu Shredder don't belong.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201319: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:04:27 PM

@Scraggle: Oh yeah we see evidence. We see a whole bunch of skeletons (in something right out of the Ego reveal) and a video tape of the slaughter. And the Councilor says he plans to do it again right out.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:06:45 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#201320: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:09:52 PM

Any other current keepers need to be reevaluated? Ch'rell's an obvious keep. And I'm biased, but I think Necro Monster is unique enough.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201321: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:11:24 PM

ACW: Any opinion on the Councilor.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:17:21 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#201322: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:15:54 PM

[tup] Councilor and, but [tdown] Evans.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 11th 2020 at 8:57:25 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#201323: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:20:40 PM

I was opposed to Tengu Shredder being listed from the start on the basis his actions weren't in the same ball park as Ch'rell's (and I repeat resources should not be a factor as Tengu Shredder is a demon capable of reducing the entire planet into a hellish wasteland), with nowhere near the focus on the lives lost or visceral atrocity Ch'rell's actions were given. On top of that, we have at least three other comparatively minor villains now that have attempted the annihilation of all humanity.

The only one I really have any issue with being on the trope right now is Tengu Shredder. Less so with the others, I suppose, but I retain reservations given how dark this series could get on a regular basis.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 11th 2020 at 6:22:19 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#201325: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:22:19 PM

[tup] to Evans and the councilor

I have no idea what I am doing

Total posts: 326,048
Top