During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Cheshire Cat writeup.
Below is my write-up for Foyle (as I can see about ten votes for and no abstains or votes against), shamelessly stolen from my 20-year old self but updated somewhat. Added to drafts.
- Introduced on trial for murdering a young woman and savaging her corpse, Liam Foyle initially seems aloof, but soon shows himself to be much worse. After defence barrister William Burton gets him off on a technicality and refuses to shake his hand, Foyle begins stalking Will's wife Kate, files fraudulent complaints to hamper his career, then murders Kate. Later, once Maggie Gardner also gets him off on a technicality, he begins stalking her and leaving her disturbing gifts by breaking into her flat, rendering her a gibbering wreck. When finally confronted for his actions, Foyle has little excuse for his extreme pettiness beyond the fact that he is the way he is, and claiming that society should somehow accept him as some sort of lion amongst the sheep.
wait, so Criminal Minds fell victim to Criminal Minds Syndrome?... Just wow.
Edit: the reason he files the complaint is twofold. One is to inconvenience, the other - I didn't mention this in the EP as it was getting too long even with trimming - is implied to be so it can be used against Will when he's testifying, to make it look like Will is blaming him out of spite at the complaint (Maggie indeed uses this against him). That the reason I included it in the summary, but if anyone else thinks it should go then I'm all ears.
Edit 2:
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Dre and Majesty get
from me
Edited by captainmarkle on Feb 9th 2020 at 9:04:19 AM
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
I think you should remove the "files complaints to hurt his career" because that's some major Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking. Other than that it looks good though.
Hey everyone. So, remember The Last Lamia's Dr. Theodore Erswick? Well, the most recent episode (aired in October) is a Whole Episode Flashback that gives more details about Erswick. Does he gain any redeeming qualities?
No, he just got a hundred times worse.
He's in need of a serious entry expansion.
Here's why.
Dr. Erswick was the head of Project Ascension, which began with Avatech forming a faustian deal with the Lamias: providing them with resources and technology. In secret, however, Dr. Erswick would steal them from their beds at night and conduct horrific experiments on them, even when his associates just suggested taking blood samples. He electrocutes them just to enjoy listening to them scream, then uses mind-altering technology to make them forget their torture and return them in order to keep the illusion safe. When the head of Avatech, a figure known as Avalon, decrees that the Lamias are to be wiped out, Erswick agrees, laughing maniacally. He sends soldiers to burn down all the Lamia homes with the Lamias inside, and watches as they drag the Lamias (including children) out of their beds and gun them down and kill them with poisoned blades. He has his soldiers gather ALL the bodies for him to transport back to his lab. His assistant is horrified and asks him if he is truly okay with genocide, and he, while laughing, assures that he is. He then comes across the dying Lamia Sovereign (queen), and mocks her while shooting her just to make her scream. He then, for no reason other than to amuse himself, ties her to a post and lights a bonfire around her, burning her alive as he watches.
On top of that, he also gives a speech, with one line that's basically just begging to be proposed for the quotes page (the part in bold):
- "Greetings, your High Sovereignty. I trust you've had quite the exciting morning, hmm? You're probably wondering why this is happening. But then again, perhaps not. You're an intelligent lot; precisely why we need you. However, we don't need ALL of you, do we? (laughs, grabs her neck and begins to choke her, pulls a gun) Now, you should know, I'm not a patient man, and rounding up every last one of your kind will take considerably long. So how to pass the time? Well, let me think... I'm sure between the three of us, we can think of something. You, me, and this! (shoots her, laughs) Oh come now, I want to hear it! The glorious crescendo of an agonizing scream! You're keeping me in suspense here, your Majesty! (shoots her again) Perhaps I'm not aiming for the... proper... weak spot? Tick tock, goes the clock, all the world's-a dreaming. Tick tock, goes the clock, but all I hear is- (shoots her again, makes her scream, laughs) This is the feeling of true power! Holding the lives of a dying species in the palm of my hand, witnessing their agony with my own eyes! (laughs) There is truly no better ecstasy in this world! (laughs) Gather the wood, and prepare the stage. We're going to light the biggest bonfire these islands have ever seen! And you, oh mighty Sovereign, will be the guest of honor!"
So... yeah. Not only is he not going anywhere, but I'm gonna probably be expanding his entry soon, because he is just sick.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereGot two candidates. Gotta love Complex for that...
One Less Bitch
is a N.W.A song and the last of the group's 1991 album Efil4zaggin (you know what it mean when read in reverse, but while I technically do have N-Word Privileges, I'm French-Comorian, not African-American, so I prefer not to mention it in English). The song deals with Dr. Dre and MC Ren's experiences with "bitches", which should already tell you that we're not going to deal with feminists here (I apologize to every woman on this thread).
Dr. Dre's character, however, particularly stands out (having three verses in the song helps).
Who's Dr. Dre? What has he done?
Dr. Dre first is interested in a hooker named Clara to, well... Do her job, while he's also interested in the ensuing money, which is all he cares about ultimately. Clara's just another way to get that money. However, after accusing her of stealing from him, Dre tied her up to a bed, had her gang-raped by his friends before killing her.
Dre dealt with Vicky next, who both loved him and lusted for him. But see, Vicky is married to a wealthy district attorney. Dre saw another way to make money with her, however. But when he found out who her husband was, he killed Vicky to avoid trouble with the law.
Dealing with another prostitute, Dr. Dre first considered pimping her to get money. And he did. While he didn't kill her, however? MC Ren did (and he killed Dre as well). Not that Dre cared about.
Heinousness?
Kill two women for more or less petty reasons. The second girl was more or less understandable, but the first one? Just because he thought she stole from him, he had her gang-raped and killed. Kinda extreme if you ask me. Of course, up to you guys if you think he makes it.
In comparison, MC Ren kills one, and swiftly.
Redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
He quickly mentions having friends (who gang-raped Clara), but there's no evidence of any love between them. In terms of mitigating qualities, that's all.
Generic Doomsday Villain issues?
None. He's established as an extremely greedy man who does everything he does for the sake of money. Nothing else matters.
Any other mitigating qualities?
Nope.
Verdict?
Your call.
Murderahh
is a rap song by Live Squad (a early New York hip-hop group consisting of brothers Stretch (R.I.P.) and Majesty and DJ K-Low, best known for their early collaborations with Tupac Shakur, The Notorious B.I.G. and Nas.
In this song, Stretch and Majesty are murderers (really?). But while Stretch doesn't count (he cares about his sister and is a Knight Templar Big Brother), Majesty's character is worth a shot.
Who is Majesty? What has he done?
Having already previously killed so many people he can't count them, Majesty is out to get back at someone for a "wack move".
This way includes going to his home, tying up his girlfriend, raping her in front of him, killing her, and then, upon finding a baby, throwing the baby out the window to a certain doom (with the baby screaming all the while). Oh, and he ties up his target, put a bomb in his mouth, set it up for 10 minutes before leaving. No need to explain what happened to the unfortunate guy. Later on, Majesty kills a cop alongside Stretch.
Heinousenss?
Stretch offed a guy because he supposedly harmed his sister and then killed a cop.
Which isn't much compared to Majesty raping and killing a girl in front of his boyfriend, putting a bomb in the latter's mouth, and throwing their baby out a window. And he also has the Cop Killer stuff.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming qualities?
The reason he targeted his rival's family... Isn't much. It is a case of Disproportionate Retribution.
No redeeming qualities either. Majesty hangs out with Stretch, but I've seen no evidence of any particular love for each other. They come off as murder buddies due to the lack of evidence.
Any other mitigating qualities?
One. At one point, in Stretch's first verse, we can hear Majesty saying "Dissin my sister, you must be jokin." That being said, he voiced Stretch's character's thoughts, not his.
Generic Doomsday Villain issues?
Nope. Established murderer with motives.
Verdict?
I'm confident in this one.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Feb 9th 2020 at 12:55:21 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Kinda had to do it, even though I did it back when Woobie and HS still had EPs (I think my record there was 5-7 EPs in one go). Mostly because miraculous complained about the length of the post when I put out 3 EPs at once.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
That's understandable. I won't lose any sleep if he is downvoted. I'll just mention that gang-rape came off as quite unique.
Abstain on Omar.
Ryan: Go for it; just make sure it's a Sandbox.
Newton: I see no reason that character couldn't count. I mean, he obviously knew what he was doing.
N: Please add to the Drafts.
Agreed with Falcon on the music duo.
I'm not even sure that's Criminal Minds Syndrome: Hell, that dude probably wouldn't count for Bellisarioverse, and he'd be questionable even for CSI.
I mean, it could turn out to be a Merva case where he actually has hundreds, but compare to the other season finale unsubs:
- Fisher King: Okay, not much, but it was season 1.
- Frank: One of the most prolific killers in the series.
- New York Terrorist Cell: Meh, but at least double digits.
- Mason and Lucas Turner: 90 kills; Foyet also appears.
- Billy freaking Flynn.
- Lucy's Human Trafficking ring.
- Izzy and gang (apparently she loves her partner, but she's definitely heinous enough).
- The Replicator: On the lower end in terms of kills, but one of the more personal unsubs.
- McGregor and co.: Not bad enough, but still double-digit kills and total corruption. THIS is a good example of Criminal Minds Syndrome. Randy Slade too for that matter.
- Zorgen's Human Trafficking ring: Even more dead victims than Lucy's (the latter can still stay; Human Trafficking is actually a surprisingly rare crime on the show).
- Rawdon and co.: Okay, a bit lackluster, but a big gang that frees numerous killers.
- Cat Adams; Mr. Scratch.
- Merva.
- Okay, some random guys.
Edited by ACW on Feb 9th 2020 at 7:18:02 AM
Yes to Majesty. Abstain on Dre.
I have a really big doctor's appointment today. So I won't be here for most of it.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadHow about a new example for Monster.Sherlock Holmes.
Whats the work?
The lost husband is a 2019 book by William meikle.
The case of a lost husband leads Holmes and Watson into the bowels of the new Underground system, where they uncover a fiendish scheme – the recently deceased are being forced to work as unpaid labor in the tunnels. And soon the walking dead come up into the city itself, spreading mayhem and disease.
Holmes must find the perpetrator of these atrocities, and stop him, before the plague engulfs London.
Who is William Gatherford
A wealthy businesman and scientist. Gatherford is a fanataic who wishes to increase his profits at all cost. Discovering a method to create zombies from a trip to haitia as well as his own research, Gatherford sets to work. Gatherford comvinces poor workers into signing up to work under him. Leaving out what he does. He has them drugged and tortured using a special toxin he created, sewing their lips shut and eventually using his methods to kill them and turns them into corpses which are now stuck following his orders. With an army that doesn't need sleep or food , Gatherford has been able to increase his profits.
Anyway Holmes and Watson investigate after the wife of one of his victims wants to know what happened to her husband. They track his disappearance to Gatherford who sics his zombies on them. They take Jim hostage and try to get him to stop them but he reveals that his death will just leave them with a bunch of dead corpses which they'd be blamed for. So Holmes punches him out and they set our to find evidence to put his horrid business and him out for good.
Anyway Holmes tracks down and tries to capture a zombie as proof to get lestrade to prosecute this prick. They eventually find one after and attack from him and put it under observation. He and Watson then enter Gatherford's facility where his zombies are made and discovers he has hubdreds of victims who are being "processed" into his undead workers. Gatherford reveals that he intends to take his businesses worldwide , transforming the entire population and killing to create industrial slaves. Holmes tries to break his control over the zombies with his incantation having researched Gatherford's. It fails and Holmes and Watson engage Gatherford in a fight as his zombies trie to get to them.
Gatherford was quite, quite mad. I reached for my pistol, but once again Holmes put his hand on my arm.
“I cannot ask you to do that, Watson. You cannot have an unarmed man’s blood on your hands. It would taint you forevermore and you would never forgive yourself.”
Gatherford smiled. “And that is where I will always win, Holmes,” he said. “For I have no conscience to prevent me from doing what must be done.”
Holmes smiled back through blooded lips. “In this instance,” he said. “I think you will find we are more alike than you imagine.”
Holmes leaps onto Gatherford and the two fight with Holmes beating him. He then leavss to sAve Watson and realises their about to be overwhelmed. They spot the husband of the person who gave them this case and Holmes implores said zombie that if theirs anything left to go after gatherford for taking him away from his wife. Using perhaps the last bit of his mind, he kills Gatherford and with gatherford's death. All the corpses stop. Now at piece. Holmes tells said victims wife that also able to tell ,that her husband’s last thoughts had been of her— and that he had gone with a smile on his face.
Freudian Excuse ?
Thats a no. No sob story of any kind.
mitgiating factors?
No. Gatherford is just a greedy elitist who wants to increase his profits and he never actually tells his victims what he's going to do to them. So they have no idea he plans to kill him.
He even admits to having no conscience and is a psyhco. Albeit a polite one.
Heinous standard?
One of the worst in Holmes canon ever. He tortures and sews the mouths shut of his victims who are poor people he's tricked into this. Killing hundreds this way with indications that his victims may still be aware of the pain their in. He intends to replicate this over the entire world ,which would kill boatloads of people.
Conclusion?
As easy a keeper as you get
Edited by miraculous on Feb 9th 2020 at 5:00:27 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yes to Mir’s. Vile he amalgamates the teacher and cafe manager, establishing who he is is fine. As for the “speculation” it’s literally said at the end of the movie that he listed places for placing bodies in his journal he hadn’t used yet, the final sentence is indicative of that.
Edited by 43110 on Feb 9th 2020 at 8:01:21 AM
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We have some from the original continuity for Die Hard. We have ones from the first movie and book it was based on even. On top of two others from the movies.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 9th 2020 at 8:02:16 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Wow. The one time you think Criminal Minds Syndrome would strike... and it just does not. Well, maybe this guy will do something big that skyrockets him past the super-high baseline.
Anyway, after re-reading the Alice Mare novel, I had thoughts about including the White Rabbit, since he also works with the Cheshire Cat and manipulates Allen into traumatizing the other kids to get at their souls. However, the Cat does that and more on his own. So I would say that, while the Rabbit is bad, the Cat is worse, and much more direct in his villainy, while the Rabbit is more of a backstage manipulator.
If anyone wants to see for themselves, here is the download and translated novel
. For now:
Edited by MasterN on Feb 8th 2020 at 11:07:44 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.