TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201051: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:17:15 PM

Abstain on Richard because the thing about him claiming his actions are for the betterment of the city may make him a Well-Intentioned Extremist. It may also just be a cheap justification for him to go Never My Fault, in which case he would qualify, but from that description there's not enough info to decide one way or the other.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201052: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:20:24 PM

[up]Oh no he's not well intentioned at all multiple characters bring up the fact that he brags about it and how he is a massive control freak. Plus it's all about how he fixed the city. Not how he fixed the city . It's all about him not the city. He also doesn't explain how him having people killed in such a way is for the betterment of anything.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 8th 2020 at 4:48:43 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#201053: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:24:17 PM

[tup] Cadney, Richard Stewart

OK, here goes my five-year overdue EP for The Escape Artist, a BBC One miniseries that aired all the way back in 2013, starring David Tennant and Toby Kebbell. My EP is for Liam Foyle (Kebbell), whom I brought up once or twice but never formally EP'd. Beware copious British English owing to subject matter (I have attempted to explain any terms that might trip up). Brace yourselves, this is a LONG one.

Who is Foyle? What does he do?

Foyle is introduced to protagonist and public defender Will Burton (Tennant)- and by proxy the audience - as a man on trial for suspicion of murder of Sandra Mullens. The two meet beforehand to discuss Foyle's defence (video for most/all of that scene here), where they go for the defence of Foyle not noticing the blood because of long grass and then assuming it was from an animal. At this point, Foyle chillingly goes on a tangent about Britain's native red squirrels suffering from grey/gray squirrels being an invasive species, then the greys being targeted by the (relatively) new black squirrels, commenting about how "you can't be too careful" before his own solicitor forces him to go back on track. Foyle & Will then go through the story, where Will points out a few discrepancies, namely a sudden change in laundry day from Tuesday to Monday (Foyle claims he'd run out of underwear or "pants") and shoving his shoes in a washing machine instead of cleaning another way (Foyle claims he did this for the blood). Will then moves on to reports of websites which contain "extreme pornography", an umbrella term for acts that can & do threaten a person's life, resemble torture or even involve "sexual interference with a human corpse". Foyle attempts to deny this, to no avail as Will has his card bills, causing Foyle to claim the bill is somehow lying; Will clearly doesn't believe him but opts to move on to Foyle seeming Obviously Evil and needing to improve his presentation style, leading to Foyle saying: "I don't like people very much. I'm just not a very nice person."

Eventually, the case goes into the courtroom. We hear the prosecution explain the woman's gruesome injuries - which we see for a few seconds. Things are compounded when the credit card records are verified by Foyle's bank, and the sites he supposedly visits are described as showing similar injuries to those inflicted on Mullens before her death, namely bite marks and gouging of eyes. However, despite the apparent avalanche of evidence, the trial judge's initial refusal to give Will's expert time to prepare submissions causes a legal snag, which later ends up leaking to print and social media. Will argues (reasonably) that Foyle cannot be given a fair trial, forcing the judge to stay the indictment and getting him Off on a Technicality. Foyle parts ways with him, and as he goes, offers to shake Will's hand. Will, understandably unnerved by Foyle, refuses (though does say it was a pleasure to exonerate him as he walks off)... and then shit really starts to hit the fan.

While Will's at a reunion at a restaurant, his wife Kate has a bath at home and relaxes, only to see Foyle appear seemingly out of nowhere, staring at her, understandably freaking her out. Kate then calls Will, having retreated out the bathroom; Will is slightly confused as the bathroom is on the first floor (so not just a passing peeping tom - it later turns out Foyle is an expert climber), but drives home and meets the police (whom Kate called) there to find no sign of the alleged culprit, except a balloon tied to the kennel saying "Sorry you're leaving". This is done mostly to scare the shit out the Burtons. This then follows with a formal, fraudulent complaint by Foyle to both a legal Ombusdman and the Bar Standards Board (regulatory board for barristers in England & Wales) about Will's conduct, accusing him of being a Jerkass, despite Foyle's case being won for him by Will, for no reason but to harass Will and hamper his career by halting an application for a serious promotion.

Foyle then culminates this long, petty Disproportionate Retribution by tracking down Kate, murdering her brutally (we only see the corpse from an angle, but it's in a bad way). Will, noticing Kate wasn't picking up, comes back to find her corpse, as well as their son Jamie alive but understandably traumatised (implied only to have survived by hiding). To make matters worse, next episode reveals Kate was pregnant, showing a positive pregnancy test found when Jamie and Will clean out some of her possessions. Foyle is eventually arrested, and defended by Will's rival, Maggie Gardner, and granted bail because he's at low risk of absconding.

While on bail, Foyle then stalks Jamie and his school friend, following them through a park and onto a bus but eventually breaking off. The trial then has Maggie also get him Off on a Technicality (much more maliciously than Will did), despite Will's other colleagues all trying their hardest to put an airtight case together. Foyle is then freed, going up to Scotland in a cabin... but not before he then starts stalking Maggie and giving her disturbed gifts that freak her out, even after she did shake his hand.

Burton, at this point angered by Maggie's defence and Foyle's being a Karma Houdini, ends up going up to Scotland with Jamie on holiday. He then tracks Foyle down to the cabin, where Foyle cheerfully chats to Will, before averting Just Between You and Me and hitting him, causing Will to lightly slash his arm in self-defence. Seemingly having the upper hand, Foyle begins Evil Gloating, saying he's an animal that has stopped pretending (likening himself to a lion being victimised for eating sheep)... he's about to go on when he suddenly drops down due to an allergic reaction, from the shellfish on Will's knife. Despite Will's apparent efforts to save his life and a paramedic team, Foyle dies regardless, painfully.

Redeeming qualities?

None whatsoever. He's Faux Affably Evil, but drops the mask when he thinks he can safely gloat. Nobody's off limits if they piss him off (and even if they don't, he finds flimsy pretext and is happy to indulge in Revenge by Proxy). His funeral is a Lonely Funeral, with the sole person in attendance crying, but Even Evil Can Be Loved is not an automatic disqualifier and the relationship between the two is not 100% fleshed out. He's also one hell of an Ungrateful Bastard.

Heinous standard?

Tops it for the work, which is relatively small-scale compared to other legal dramas. The only other person who can be considered a villain is Will's rival Maggie, who ends up letting Foyle off while also hitting Will's emotional buttons in such a way he can't testify, and even she's a mild case treated with sympathy when Foyle then targets her. Furthermore, while the porn Foyle watches is Offscreen Villainy, the recreation attempts are not; we see Mullens' corpse, mutilated, and the same goes for Kate's body.

Will does turn out to ultimately be responsible for Foyle's death, poisoning the knife on purpose and then expertly faking helping Foyle try to live (Once More, with Clarity), but this is Pay Evil unto Evil and ultimately him getting desperate after the courts fail to convict him.

Conclusion

An easy [tup] from me.

Edit: [down][down][down][down], yes, Foyle did all this over a Handshake Refusal, and then to make matters worse terrorised the lawyer that helped him out a second mess of his own making, even when she did shake his hand.

Edited by captainmarkle on Feb 8th 2020 at 10:42:12 AM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#201054: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:29:11 PM

[tup] to Foyle

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#201056: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:35:18 PM

[tup] to Richard and Foyle.

Has Charles Starkweather ever been portrayed as a CM, BTW?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#201057: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:36:45 PM

So Foyle did all that because...the lawyer—who helped him—wouldn't shake his hand??

Yes to him. Third CM for Kebbell, with possibly a fourth coming up if Ax is anything like in the comics.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#201060: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:12:57 PM

[tup] to Foyle

And Holy Fuck that's gotta set a record for Evil Is Petty.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#201062: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:43:27 PM

Sure to Foyle.

As for his motivation... Yeah, that's a new one...

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#201063: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:47:32 PM

[tup] to Richard and Foyle. I mean, Evil Is Petty, but Foyle is on a whole different level.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#201064: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:34:08 PM

[tup] Sarah.

[tup] Cadney.

[tup] Richard Stewart.

[tup] Foyle.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#201065: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:58:31 PM

[tup] to Richard Stewart and Liam Foyle.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#201066: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:00:41 PM

[tup] to Richard and Foyle

Alright, so I just finished playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019), and I have a potential candidate that may or may not qualify. Since therealjackieboy summarized the game’s plot when he first effort posted Barkov, I’ll get straight to effort post my candidate. Introducing Omar “The Wolf” Suleiman.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Omar “The Wolf” Suleiman is part of the Big Bad Ensemble with Barkov who used to been a freedom fighter against Barkov’s tyrannical regime over the country Urzikstan. However Omar become much more violent and fanatical in time whose actions disgust even the Urzikstan Liberation Force and would form a group of radical terrorist groups called Al Qatala.

Under Omar’s direction, Al Qatala would orchestrate numerous terrorist attacks around the world, with one notable example being Piccadilly Circus in London, which caused mass destruction and the deaths of dozens of innocent people, children included. Omar would also strap bomb vests on some of these innocent people resulting in there deaths as well.

When the SAS led by Captain Price and Sergeant Garrick find Omar’s location at Rammaza Hospital, Omar has all the patients in that hospital used as disposable human shields, while he attempts to execute the American soldiers that Omar has imprisoned live for everyone to see.

Luckily SAS was able to rescue the soldiers and apprehend Omar taking him to the American Embassy. Unlucky, Omar has Al Qatala raid the Embassy killing everyone there as well as the Urzikstan civilians near the embassy with one of his men, The Butcher, killing a child.

Escaping SAS and the US forces, it would soon be revealed that Farah’s brother Hadir stole Barkov’s gas for Omar to which Omar plans to use the gas on the city Moscow killing countless of innocent people and triggering a world war.

When Alex and Farah arrive at Omar’s headquarters to stop Omar, Omar sets his own headquarters on fire in his attempts to kill the duo while also killing numerous of his own men in the process. Omar also straps a bomb vest willing to blow himself up, but Alex is able to kill Omar and defuse the bomb vest.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Now Omar’s “justifications” for all the atrocities that he has committed throughout the game is that he wants to remove Barkov from Urziksran. However his excuse falls flat as Omar himself is willing to massacre innocent people from Urziksran just to make a point and even attacks a country that has nothing to do with Urziksran just because its a super power and Omar despises superpowers

In the end Omar willingness to slaughter his own people soldiers and other innocent people by the masses shows that he is nothing more than psychopathic zealot who merely uses his “cause” as an excuse to satiate his lust for murder and overt his control over others.

Heinousness

Now then Barkov is definitely heinous to qualify as a CM, but I also think Omar is heinous in his own right. Omar has less resources than Barkov, but still manages to have a pretty high body count massacring dozens (if not more) of innocent people, including children, even forcibly strapping bomb vest against their willing, using hospital patients as human shields, brainwashes his own soldiers to become suicide bombers, and even burns them alive when he sets his own headquarters on fire.

Then there is his intent to unleash Barkov’s gas on Moscow and other foreign powers to kill countless people and start a world war which would lead to more deaths. Even after his death his legacy would remain where his successor Khaled Al-Asad would led an invasion at Verdansk. Overall, I think Omar is heinous just enough to qualify, though this is my opinion and I am sure others might disagree.

Final Verdict

I will leave this decision up to you guys

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 8th 2020 at 3:00:52 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#201067: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:05:26 PM

[tup] to Omar “The Wolf” Suleiman.

RIP Robert Conrad.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#201068: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:09:57 PM

Tentative yes to Suleiman, although I would like Jackie to weigh in.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#201069: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:18:16 PM

[tup] to Richard and [tup] to Foyle

I'm going to[tdown] Omar for now because based on the description and the wiki page on him, I'm not convinced he isn't a Well-Intentioned Extremist. He's a particularly vicious and psychopathic Well-Intentioned Extremist, sure, but I don't see any canon source that shows that he does not genuinely believe he is fighting to free his people from tyranny. Being really evil and unsympathetic doesn't mean you can't be well-intentioned; for example V.V. from Code Geass is another socoiopathic villain that easily meets the heinous marker, but he was disqualified from Complete Monster because he is still a Well-Intentioned Extremist, and having good intentions at all disqualifies you from this trope and it seems as though this Omar is the same. I'm going to [tdown] unless evidence can be produced that he doesn't actually care about freeing his people or that he's more heinous than the other guy he's fighting against, but it seems as though that guy is a Complete Monster in his own right so I don't see it.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 8th 2020 at 5:21:25 AM

CJCroen1393 Pokemon Trainer from The Western Interior Seaway (Ancient one) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Pokemon Trainer
#201070: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:22:25 PM

I wasn't gonna do this so soon, but since apparently there were enough votes...I have a draft.

NOTE: This should go under "Vocaloid franchises and continuities" in the "Music" subpage

  • Machigerita's "Pierrot": The titular Pierrot was once a Non-Ironic Clown who loved to entertain children. After being mocked by his audience, Pierrot's heart "became filled with a murky darkness" and he decided that he must kill the children. Kidnapping the children and trapping them in his room, Pierrot sadistically persists in torturing his victims before finally killing them—one child is described as having their face "shaved off". Pierrot expresses great delight in their suffering, enjoying the smell of their blood and the look of their pained expressions, and states that he'll never stop even as they become disfigured. Pierrot proclaims how much he "loves" everything about the children he kills and the song ends with one of his victims screaming.

It's uh...not very good, as you can see, but I'll go ahead and put it in the drafts section for it to be fixed up.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#201071: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:26:33 PM

Abstain on Omar. I would like to hear from Jackie or someone else who has played the game before finalizing my vote as I don't really know anything about this franchise.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#201073: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:42:05 PM

The reason I didn’t originally EP Omar was because of the game’s heinous standard. Don’t get me wrong, he’s an utter bastard. But I felt he didn’t compare to Barkov. Resources wise, he has few compared to Barkov, he doesn’t give a shit about his own people, and he’s still a threat within the game, but I feel as though Barkov’s the bigger bastard.

That’s just my opinion. Glad he was EP’d so that he can be judged in full detail, but I’m going to have to abstain on him. There’s my 2 cents.

Also [tup] Foyle.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 8th 2020 at 5:51:15 AM

It's Spooky Month!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#201074: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:45:49 PM

[tup] Richard and Foyle, wait for Jackie on Omar.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#201075: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:55:29 PM

Abstain on Omar.

Check out my current fanfiction project.

Total posts: 326,048
Top