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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#200977: Feb 8th 2020 at 12:11:21 AM

[tup] Perdo

[tup] Richard

Not a good day to have a doctorate.

—-

So, I read a series where...I really don't know what to do. One villain is simply too much of a confusing mess to do a EP right now and the other, well, his crimes are much more explainable and very personal but he has a...this kinda disgust me but has to be said, arguable redeeming trait.

A man loses his wife, his daughter cheers him and he starts to seeing his daughter as his wife (something that he is aware and confesses when he is caught), eventually sexually abusing her. This all lead to him Accidentally Murdering his daughter when he was trying to kill his own male son believing that without him, then his daughter would love him.

Redeeming trait or not? I'm going to do a EP anyway tomorrow, but I still feel I need to said it.

...Nah, I will just do it now. It's brief.

Setting?

Mayonaka no X Giten is a mistery manga based on "Freaky Friday" Flip. The Protagonist Hiroki Kamiya is a misogynist teenager that lives alongside his NEET sister. On one of their many discussions, Kamiya finds a page that offers him a method to change bodies with another person regardless of gender, Kamiya chooses to spend a night as a girl and the experience ends badly with Kamiya returning to his body...and then seeing the dead body of his sister. Now, realizing that despite everything, he loved her, Kamiya will try his best to find the murderer.

Now. This is a legit fun twist of the series. The Big Bad X is not the murderer, X is still a very cruel villain but he is uninvolved on the murder of Yui.

Yui's murderer lacks the grandiose mysticism of X and changes it for being a much more disgustingly closer villain.

Who is the Father of the Kamiya Family?

A family man who is usually presented as a generical anime absent father. Kamiya's father was devastated at the death of his wife while his daughter Yui tried to cheer him up, however, due to.the resemblance, he started to.see.her as a replacement for his wife. With his obsession leading to him sexually harassing and abusing her while drugging his male son Hiroki to preveng him from intervening.

Yui kept it hidden but the emotional scars turned the cheerful brave Big Cool Sis into a depressed NEET who was afraid of everything. At the same time, Kamiya was angry and jealous of his son Hiroki due to him being genuinely loved for Yui despite Hiroki's disgust at her

(Example of the hypocresy: He is angry that his son rants about his sister on internet while he sexually abuses her at night)

Using the Cross Method/ Midnight Shift (I don't know which is the real name, translations get weird) while drugging his own body to prevent the host from moving and manipulating Yui's wishes to become a man, he gets to be inside Yui's body while she is on Hiroki's (Hiroki's soul was on the body of a Idol Singer who was unrelated). Kamiya tries to murder Hiroki's body but Hiroki's special ability (all Cross Method users have one) awakes Yui, who fights against her father and ends up stabbing her own body to save her brother. Yui's body dies and Hiroki awakens at her side with a knife on his hand and starting the plot.

After Big Bad X was defeated and Yui's body dissapeared, Hiroki is helped by his new friends to caught the murderer of Yui. Hiroki badmouths Yui and celebrates her death online to call the attention of the murderer and while Kamiya plans to murder Hiroki, he is tricked into going to the body of a defenless plushy (is a special thing used for the creator of the Cross Method).

There, he is discovered and interrogated, receiving insults from Hiroki's friends while the police finds Kamiya's body alongside Yui's corpse, effectively ensuring the Kamiya's patriarch serves time on jail.

Heinous standard?

Big Bad X does murder over 6 victims If not more, but he is a supernatural being whose control.on the Cross System.is massive and has some of the most broken powers on the series (can make.his targets sleep by just singing). Sexual abuse isn't unique neither with some minor antagonists being rapists.

But constant incentuous sexual abuse? That is...actually fairly rare. The only other case is the older brother of the Kirishima's family who raped his little sister and beat her constantly (the only reason why he isn't effort posted is because he really has no personality beyond "My brother was a monster and did this"). I also have to add the ridiculous Hypocresy and pettiness factors mixed with the "Trying to murder your own son because that totally means your daughter would be happy to sleep with you" which is just...really fucked.

Plus, resources, X is a thought being with broken powers. The Kamiya's Father is a random guy with medical knowledge. And he still manages to be the most despicable and hated character of the series.

Redeeming traits?

All of this started because he loved his wife and was devastated for losing her. But then he started to see her on his daughter and well, you see.

Kamiya might have loved his wife, but for all the talk of "seeing her on his daughter", he is fairly aware they're different people, he is angry when she rejects having sex with him and ultimately, he tries to murder his son, someone whom his wife loved a lot.

I personally feel the "Loved his wife" trait got totally subverted but I see how others could think otherwise.

Verdict

I personally said...[tup]

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 8th 2020 at 3:12:04 PM

Watch me destroying my country
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200978: Feb 8th 2020 at 1:11:46 AM

Abstaining for now. Is he heartbroken when his daughter kicks the bucket?

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200979: Feb 8th 2020 at 2:42:37 AM

Leaning yes on Pierrot, although he seems like he may be a bit TOO delusional.

[tup] Cheshire Cat, Richard, Perdo.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#200980: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:14:29 AM

Here is EP of Jinmen from Devilman vs Hades

What's the work?

Devilman vs Hades is a non-canon AU manga, which follows Akira after he escaped from Satan during their final battle instead of dying in a fight with him, like he did in canon. Entering the underworld and seeking Hades, in hopes of forcing him to resurrect Miki (his girlfriend), Devilman fights and kills most of Hades' minions and nearly kills his wife Persephone, angering Hades, who starts tracking down Akira to torture and kill him for such violation of his realm. Hades is also an enemy of Mazinger crew (another one of Go Nagai mangas), so Devilman fought with them as well in final chapters.

Now, since all other villains are either not heinous enough or in case of Hades, have redeeming qualities (love for his wife) I will focus on a Jinmen, who appeared in only 2 chapters of this 17 chapters manga (and even then only at the end of one chapter and for like two thirds of second) and managed to stood out.

Who is Jinmen?

As always, a turtle like demon, who enjoys torture his prey, Jinmen died at the end of his first encounter with Devilman in original manga. After Akira made enemies with Hades, Jinmen made a deal with him, offering his service in exchange for Hades resurrecting him and allowing him to exact his vengeance on Akira. Devouring the souls of entire town, where Akira lived in before, as well as town itself, Jinmen trapped Akira in his own illusion of a town full of life, where everything appeared normal to Akira (as if demons never invaded), well aside from the fact (as Akira's companions discover) town's residents can't die and completely ignore each other's death. As Akira then discovers Miki's severed head (while standing close to Miki's impersonator), which Jinmen put to mess more with Akira's head, he figured the lie out and confronted Jinmen, who revealed to become the town itself. Taunting Akira about the fact that all town's residents are very much alive (due to Jinmen remaking them from their souls, as they became part of his shell) and his to torture (aside from Miki's impersonator, which revealed to be another demon in later chapters), Jinmen bites the part of town on his back (in his attempt to devour Akira as well) and cause earthquakes, which causes many residents of town to fall deeper into the holes on Jinmen's back and get tortured by him. Akira managed to assume his form and fight and kill Jinmen, but not before Jinmen called Hades, allowing him to teleport Akira to himself to try and kill him.

Heinousness?

For a two chapter villain, who only appeared in a little more than dozen pages, Jinmen stand out with his trapping entire town on his back by devouring all souls of the people from the town (which has at least hundreds, if not thousands, of people) and gleefully torturing them, intending to continue this for eternity, solely out of his sadism and desire to hurt Akira.

Mitigating Qualities?

None.

Conclusion?

I will say Yes.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200981: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:23:20 AM
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#200983: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:53:16 AM

Yes to Richard, Perdo, and Jinmen.

No to Kamiya and the Tunnel Keeper.

Edited by falcontalons on Feb 8th 2020 at 4:28:56 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#200985: Feb 8th 2020 at 3:54:45 AM

[tup] to both versions of Jinmen, Costello, Pierrot, Cheshire Cat and Perdo. [tdown] to the Tunnel-Keeper; abstain on Kamiya.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#200986: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:30:55 AM

Here's a potential candidate.

What is the film?

Tyler Perrys A Fall From Grace is a 2020 thriller film released on Netflix. The film is about a lawyer named Jasmine Bryant taking on a case regarding Grace Waters supposedly killing her husband Shannon with a bat. Feeling suspect about the ordeal, Jasmine seeks to uncover the truth and clear Grace's name.

Who is she? What has she done?

Sarah Miller Betty Mills is the "best friend" of Grace. She set Grace up with Shannon. Feeding information to Jasmine, she tells Jasmine that Grace had confessed to killing Shannon.

However toward the climax of the film, it turns out Shannon hadn't died from being beaten by the bat, and Sarah and Shannon are actually a mother-son duo who were manipulating Grace from the beginning, conning her out of all her money, freezing her bank account and stealing her social security, and planned to have her framed for a fake murder.

When Alice, an elderly woman Sarah is supposedly taken care tries to escape Sarah's house, it is revealed that Sarah and her son had kidnapped and held captive many elderly women in her basement leaving all them malnourished, bruised and sickly looking several of whom had died from the terrible living condition, with one of them in particular being Driven to Suicide via jumping off a roof.

When Jasmine finds this out, Sarah abducts Jasmine. When Jasmine's husband, Jordan comes to rescue her, Sarah attacks Jordan attempting to knock him out and potentially kill him with a frying pan. Jordan overpowers her and handcuffs her to a table.

Sarah sending Shannon to dispose of Jordan and Jasmine. Jasmine shoots Shannon to death and frees the women while Sarah makes her escape.

It is revealed at the end that Sarah and Shannon had conned, kidnapped and held captive at least 16 elderly women in other states and had been doing this for over 25 years.

The film ends with Sarah as a Karma Houdini offering her "services" to another elderly lady she's planning to steal from and enslave.

Redeeming Qualities?

Her "friendship" with Grace was entirely fake. Grace was just another pawn for her and her son to munch off of and dispose of, especially since she had no problem with having her framed for a murder and sent to jail.

Her relationship with her son is merely played as a partner-in-crime type. It is unknown if her son genuinely loves her but she definitely doesn't care about him as she didn't care at all when he was killed.

Heinousness?

The fact that she specifically targets elderly people manipulating them to steal their wealth, bank and social security information before keeping them locked up in her basement until they die or kill themselves, has been doing it to dozens of victims, and by the end of the film intends to keep doing it.

Not to mention, tricking an innocent lady into believing you're their best friend while draining them of all their finaces before framing them for a murder.

Yeah I think she's pretty damn nasty.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#200987: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:31:53 AM

Yes to Jinmen, Pierrot, Cheshire Cat and Perdo. No to the Tunnel-Keeper. Abstain on Kamiya.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#200989: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:35:40 AM

Yes to Sarah.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 8th 2020 at 6:36:08 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200992: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:54:12 AM
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200994: Feb 8th 2020 at 4:58:26 AM

[tup]Sarah and Jinmen.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#200995: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:16:07 AM

[tup] to Cheshire Cat, Doctor Richard Remy, Doctor Perdo and Sarah Miller.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200996: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:24:08 AM

Has anyone seen this?

  • Amon: The Darkside of the Devilman: Cadney was a Serial Killer before achieving great power. In the post apocalyptic world, Cadney ekes out a power base by convincing humans there is no such thing as Devilmen, resulting in purges of countless peaceful humans believed to be demons. Cadney takes delight in the deaths of the innocent and simply enjoys wielding power over others.

Aside from the fact it was originally spelled as "Candy", is killing many people that special? Jinmen has And I Must Scream, while the Devilman Lady duo were approved by Lighty (and seem to go beyond mere killing into starting wars and trying to Kill All Humans), but Cadney...I dunno.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#200997: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:35:27 AM

Looking at the Charachter Sheets, Out of curiosity is there any reason the Devilman version of God Dosent count?

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 8th 2020 at 3:40:48 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200998: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:39:54 AM

If I remember correctly he never appears in person for very long just as a ball of glowing light. He does appear in the flesh in Mao Dante but it's dubiously Canon to devilman.

This is perhaps his only onscreen appearance in the flesh in the manga

[up][up]Amon is an alternate contuirty from those works. He doesn't need to compare to them.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 8th 2020 at 5:42:06 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#200999: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:41:03 AM

[up][up]He hasn't appeared in person anywhere in the manga series. [up]And this is not actually fully confirmed to be a God.

[up][up][up]I plan on re-EP him too, as he has quite a rapsheet under his belt. And yes, that series is alternative continuity.

[up]From what i heard Devilman is a remake of Demon Lord Dante.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 8th 2020 at 4:46:25 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#201000: Feb 8th 2020 at 5:50:31 AM

Ah, good, because that entry also seems a little scant.

Were we right to cut OVA!Amon?


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