During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Dry Eyes, Jinmen, Costello, Pierrot, and Cheshire Cat.
Yes to Dry Eyes, Jinmen, Costello, Pierrot and Cheshire.
Not going to go into details, but I think Dahmer would not work as a Complete Monster in an acturate adaptation of his story, I think if you look at his case there would be a ton of mitigating factors in an accurate adaptation. That's all I will say, he is pretty gross.
Norman Bates was based off of Ed Gein and does not count for that reason, IMO.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 7th 2020 at 7:58:02 AM
Dry Eyes, the Jinmen extension, Costello, Pierrot, & the Cat (why are there so many works Grimifying Alice in Wonderland)
Thus why a CM exists only in fiction. Real people are nowhere near that simple.
Yeah, I'm
in keeping Shan Yu if it wasn't obvious.
Also, surprised nobody made a Clear Eyes/Ben Stein joke yet about Dry Eye. "The difference is clear." Haha.
Yeah, Colin (Sullivan) definitely doesn't count. Redeeming qualities, standards and remorse.
That's probably for the best. I meant nowhere near that easy to figure out.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 7th 2020 at 8:39:20 AM
Slightly long one.
Doctor Richard Remy from Kong: King of the Apes
The Show: To paraphrase the press release: "Set in 2050, (King) Kong becomes a wanted fugitive after wreaking havoc at the Remy Natural History and Marine Preserve. What most humans on the hunt for the formidable animal don't realize, though, is that Kong was framed by an evil genius who plans to terrorize the world with an army of enormous robotic dinosaurs. As the only beast strong enough to save humanity from the mechanical dinos, Kong must rely on the help of his friends (Lukas Remy, Doug "Jonesy" Jones, Amy and Danny Quon, Anita, and Franciska) who know the truth about him."
The Pilot Film:
While out camping with his twin brother, Richard, and their father, Doctor Leo Remy, a young boy named Lukas saves the endangered baby gorilla Kong from a pair of poachers named Brag and Wheeler. Richard, who is clearly disgusted by Kong, insists that he be handed over to the authorities, ostensibly for his own good, but Lukas is allowed to keep Kong by Doctor Remy. Richard, who constantly demeans Kong, expects him to be rejected by the Remy family's housekeeper, Anita, but Anita becomes enamored with Kong, to the consternation of Richard. Kong grows at an exponential rate, and ends up accidentally destroying the Remy family houseboat, which attracts the attention of the police, led by Captain Decker. A fretful Lukas takes off with Kong. When a sneering Richard asks, "Why don't they start shooting?", the perturbed Doctory Remy replies, "They can't risk hitting your brother!"
Richard, of course, complains when his father reveals that they will be moving from San Francisco to the forest with Kong. Doctor Remy cheers Richard up by revealing that their new home will have a private, state of the art laboratory where Richard can help Doctor Remy with his bionics research, though Doctor Remy does make Richard swear to never use the laboratory (its lasers especially) without him or Anita. Scenes of Lukas and Kong building a secret hideout are inter cut with scenes of a "bionic dinosaur" being built by Richard. Richard wants to use the laboratory's lasers to add the finishing touches to his creation, and throws a tantrum (kicking over the dinosaur and storming off) when he is forbidden from doing so by Doctor Remy, who offers to use the lasers himself, only for Richard to angrily respond, "No, this is my invention! I have to do it all myself!"
Richard steals Lukas's tablet, and while he and Doctor Remy go into town to get a new one, Richard sneaks into the laboratory, though he is nearly prevented from doing so by Kong. Richard uses the lasers himself, and ends up causing an explosion and a fire, which he is saved from by Kong. Richard (who lost an eye, which is replaced by a conspicuous bionic one) blames everything on Kong, though Doctor Remy realizes what really happened when he finds Richard's bionic dinosaur (which shows signs of having been exposed to lasers) in the wreckage of the laboratory, which makes him shoot down Richard's demand that they get rid of Kong. Richard tells off his brother ("I'm glad I look different, I hated being a twin") and father, and moves in with his mother and stepfather in Boston.
Richard spent the next decade continuing to work in the fields of bionics and robotics, and seemingly reconciled with Lukas (who became a conservationist and a rescue worker) and Doctor Remy. After seeing a newscast praising Kong's rescue of a lost family of campers, Richard complains to his beleaguered Robot Girl assistant, Botila, "Why can't they see that freak for what he really is?!" Richard watches with amusement as the police, led by Commissioner Decker, try to bring in Kong. A compromise is reached, and Kong (who is fitted with a shock collar designed by Richard) is relocated to Alcatraz Island, which is set to be converted into the Remy Natural History and Marine Preserve, or Kong Island. Richard agrees to help his father build the preserve, though only so that he can use it as a Mad Scientist Laboratory.
The day before the preserve opens, Richard shows off one of his bionic dinosaurs, which starts to go haywire, necessitating that it be taken down by Kong. Richard blames Kong for everything, even after Botila mentions that he never bothered programming the dinosaur with an override function that could have brought it down peacefully without the need for Kong. When the preserve opens, Botila points out that people seem more interested in Kong than the Bionobots made by Richard, which prompts Richard to rant, "Because most of them are just ignorant fools, willing to pay to watch a freak of nature with less intelligence than a three year-old! Ordinary people, like my brother, are weak, and deserve to become extinct! The same as all the useless creatures he's always trying to save! Bionics and robotics are the future! And one day, I will prove it to him and the world!"
Doctor Remy dies a year after the opening of Kong Island. Richard does not attend his father's funeral, and instead merely watches a newscast about it with Botila, at one point stating, "I'll make your dream come true" (Botila sees through this, though, and mutters, "You mean yours"). Richard starts trying to take over the preserve, which he merely sees as something that he can use to fund and show off his monstrosities, but gets blocked at every turn by Lukas. Richard starts using the shock collar to torment Kong. Richard gets the preserve filled to capacity with visitors, and then cranks the pain setting on Kong's collar up high in order to get Kong to rampage through Kong Island so that he can look like a hero when he deploys his Bionobots to slay Kong. Kong beats the Bionobots, so Richard calls in the military to take out Kong. When he notices that the army is reluctant to open fire on Kong for fear of hitting civilians, Richard cranks the shock collar up even more in an attempt to make Kong go totally berserk and potentially endanger all of San Francisco while he lets loose another Bionobot. The Bionobot endangers people, who Kong still tries to defend while fighting both the pain of the shock collar and the Bionobot. An exasperated Richard decides to just torture Kong to death by putting the shock collar on its maximum setting, but Kong resists the collar with encouragement from Lucas, who is mocked by Richard. The collar is removed from Kong, who is now being hunted by the authorities, led by Commissioner Decker.
Richard lets a rare Liger and her cub loose from the preserve to draw out Lukas and Kong. The Ligers are going to be used to pay Brag and Wheeler, who are looting a military warehouse (whose contents Richard is going to sell on the black market) with Botila. Bionobots keep Kong occupied until the army shows up, at which point the Bionobots flee, leaving Kong and Lukas and Co. to take the fall for the weapons theft and the warehouse's destruction when it is blown up by a bomb planted by Botila. The mother Liger dies, and Richard reveals to Botila that he has been gradually upgrading himself, derisively stating, "My father didn't believe in using science to make one man superior to another. I do."
The Show Proper:
- 2. Richard resorts to spying on Anita to try and figure out where Lukas and Kong are, and while Anita is talking with her grand-niece, Franciska, the girl is attacked by a rare massive anaconda, which Richard decides to try and capture, to either sell or convert into a Bionobot. Richard sends Botila and Bionobots out to capture the anaconda, but they are driven off by Kong and Co., so he sends reinforcements in the form of Brag and Wheeler. The pair distract Kong and Co. by causing a massive fire, and then bring the anaconda to Richard, who painfully transforms it into a Bionobot which he at one point threatens to test on Botila. Richard sends the anaconda, a Bionobot, and Botila after Kong and Co., who manage to immobilize all three by overloading them before removing the cybernetic enhancements from the anaconda, keeping them so that they can learn more about the Bionobots. Richard performs what is implied to be a very invasive and painful anti-overload "surgery" on Botila.
- 3. Richard starts framing Kong for more crimes, like an attack on Kong Island, using a holographic doppelganger of Kong. Richard uses the Holo-Kong to steal a large amount of diamonds and to terrorize people, then offers the authorities the use of the Bionobots to help them hunt down Kong. The diamonds are used to enhance the teeth, claws, etc. of the Bionobots, which are then used to mine for uranium (which was outlawed in 2030) that Richard will sell to terrorists et al on the black market through Botila, Brag and Wheeler. The mining operation is shut down before too much uranium can be taken, but the the whole thing is blamed on Kong and Co.
- 4. Richard creates three remote-controlled Bionobot clones of the dead Liger, the prototypes for a line of new cyborg "attack dogs" that he is going to take to (black) market, and continue to make money off of even after selling them because only he has the means to repair and upgrade the Ligers. Brag and Wheeler's delivery of the Ligers to their buyer is interrupted by Kong and Co. Richard turns the tables, though, deploying Bionobots while announcing to the public and the police that Kong and the Ligers were let loose on the city by Lukas. Two of the Ligers are saved by Kong and Co., but third is recaptured by Richard, who has it thrown into the sea (he can always make more) in the expectation that Kong (who cannot swim) will drown trying to save the Liger. Kong manages to save the Liger anyway, and all three of them have their mechanical components disabled before being released into the wild by Lukas. Richard takes his petulant rage out on Botila by keeping her head and body separate from each other before storming off to work on fixing the damage that Kong did to his Bionobots and Kong Island.
- 5. Richard abducts Lukas's friend Amy, but feigns having nothing to do with it, all the while coyly challenging Lukas to find Amy, at one point taunting Amy's little brother, Danny, by implying that Amy might already be dead, though she is actually being held prisoner on Kong Island. Lukas flashes back to a childhood incident where Richard started using his bionic dinosaur to kill bugs and other small creatures for fun, only to be stopped by Kong. Richard has Botila and his Bionobots keep Kong and Co. occupied while he (kinda creepily) interrogates Amy. He also tries to tempt Amy to his side, offering to make her his partner in place of Botila. Kong and Co. eventually storm Kong Island and rescue Amy, unaware that Botila let them get away because she had planted a tracking device on Amy.
- 6. The tracker is found in time and stuck on a duck by Lukas and Co. Richard has Brag and Wheeler terrorize monkeys in Africa, then swoops in and "saves" the animals with his Bionobots. Richard transports the monkeys to the reopened preserve, where he hands out monkey dolls to all of the children visiting Kong Island. The dolls are actually hacking devices that allow Richard to take control of and steal the aircraft of the military VIP guests that had been invited to Kong Island. Richard uses the monkeys to lure Kong and Co. to the preserve, where he tries to annihilate them with his new fleet, but the vehicles are all trashed (and the monkeys rescued) by Kong.
- 7. Richard uploads Botila's A.I. into a Bionobot against her will, and when she expresses outrage over this, he forces her continued compliance with an Agony Beam. Richard has Botila rampage through the redwoods to draw out Kong. As Botila and Kong fight, so do Richard and Lukas. Kong destroys Botila's new body, and she is restored to normal by Jonesy and takes off with a beaten Richard.
- 8. Richard launches a hacked missile at San Francisco, and impresses everyone by taking it down with a Bionobot. Richard convinces militaries and law enforcement agencies all over the world to start using his Bionobots. While Richard makes obscene amounts of money from this, the wealth is merely a bonus, what he really wants is control, which he will get by having the ingratiated Bionobots turn on all of their buyers, which will allow him to easily implement his "New World Order." As a fail safe, a self-destruct mechanism prevents anyone else from examining the inner workings of the Bionobots. Before Richard can implement his violent global overthrow, the Bionobots are all deactivated by Kong and Co. after they hack and force the cooperation of Botila. Despite this, Richard is able to keep all of the money that he made thanks to the ironclad contracts drawn up by Botila.
- 9. Richard sets a trap that sees Botila shrink and capture Kong. Richard decides to keep the miniaturized Kong for a while, to study and torment him, but Kong escapes captivity, and starts running amok through Kong Island, pursued by Bionobots. Lukas and Co. save Kong, though during the battle Richard nearly succeeds in killing Jonesy, Danny, and Franciska. Botila begins to grow more and more dissatisfied with Richard.
- 10. Richard is already one of the richest men in the world, but it is not enough, so he starts melting the arctic to get at the gold and other resources that are buried beneath it, a plan which worries even Botila, both because of the attention that it is attracting, and because of the havoc that it is wreaking on the rest of the Earth. Richard has Bionobots try to kill Kong, Danny, and Amy while they are investigating the deserted Kong Island, while Botila captures Jonesy and Lukas. A disgruntled Botila releases Lukas and Jonesy, who are rescued by Kong and Co., while Botila turns on and usurps Richard when he tries to destroy and replace her with a new, mindlessly-devoted Botila.
- 11. Botila (who, unlike Richard, acknowledges that her continued survival is dependent on that of the Earth's) sees humans as a whole as too self-destructive and dangerously unpredictable, and begins drawing up plans to wipe them all out if they cannot be made to see reason and preserve the Earth. Richard has no problem with this, and believes that Botila still needs him, but when she makes it clear that she does not, he escapes and resorts to trying to get help in disposing of her from Brag and Wheeler (whose allegiance was already bought by Botila) and then Kong and Co. While on the run with Kong and Co., Richard seemingly starts to become repentant, and eventually goes off on his own to try and beat Botila. Richard fails to disable Botila, and when Kong and Co. come to his aid, an actually unchanged Richard, against all logic (as Botila points out) tries to kill Kong. Kong and Co. escape, and leave Richard to Botila. Richard reveals that he has recently created a fail safe that will shut down all of his creations (including Botila) in the event of his demise, only for Botila to reveal that, in the event of her demise, all of Richard's funds will be erased and evidence of all of his illicit activities will be revealed to everyone on Earth. The two form a shaky, stalemate-induced truce as Lukas resigns himself to the fact that there really is no longer any point in holding out hope for Richard.
- 12. Richard has Botila capture rare mosquitoes in Africa. Richard then digs through his father's old research, and after absentmindedly deleting many of the humanitarianism-centric files, finds the one about delivering inoculations using robotically-enhanced mosquitoes, which he takes and warps, so that now the mosquitoes will deliver mind control microchips that give the simple command, "Destroy Kong." Richard tests the first mosquito out on Brag, who is reduced to a glorified zombie, mindlessly chanting, "Must destroy Kong." Richard has Brag and Wheeler cause random chaos (they shoot down an infected Decker's helicopter, and leave him and his men to drown) in order to draw out Kong and Co. The mosquitoes infect Lukas, and an examination of him reveals that what the mosquitoes have done to the "rage centers" of his brain and the brains of the other infected people may permanently damage them unless an antidote is created using the mosquitoes, which are only found in Africa. The mosquitoes are captured, and Lukas is cured, along with all of the other infected people using one of the bionic-mosquitoes created by Richard.
- 13. Kong has wandered off and found a lost troop of gorillas in a volcanically active area in Africa. He is being searched for by Lukas and Co., and Richard and Botila. When a news crew that was covering the volcanic eruption interrupts his ambush of Kong and Co., Richard uses an EMP blast to cause their helicopter to drop out of the sky, but they are saved by Kong. Botila lures Kong to the top of the volcano using a baby gorilla, which she throws into the volcano, but it is saved by Kong, and brought to safety by Lukas. Botila manages to knock Kong into the volcano, and Richard knocks Lukas, Danny, and Franciska into it as well while declaring, "You're always so concerned about your filthy ape... so join him!" To ensure Kong and Co.'s demises, Richard decides to blow up the volcano, not caring ("collateral damage") when Botila points out all of the death and destruction (every village and town within 100 miles) that this will cause, as he is too busy ranting that with Kong out of the way, he can focus on building a new generation of Bionobots (that will render all of the others, including Botila, obsolete) for his New World Order. Botila shoves Richard into the volcano, which turns out to lead to a Lost World.
- 14. Richard survives the fall thanks to his personal force field generator and a reluctant Kong and Co. Richard proves to be an obnoxious detriment who does nothing but complain and slow down Kong and Co.
- 15. The group finds an ancient city built and inhabited by intelligent apes, who are revealed to be the ones who sent Kong—who they prophesied was a Chosen One who could help their crumbling civilization—to the surface of the Earth. As this is being explained, Richard secretly records the scientific tablets in the apes' library, and begins messing with their geothermal power system, convinced that he can use it to get back to the surface of the Earth. Richard's actions cause violent tremors, and while he (and a bunch of creatures) escapes to the surface through a hole that the quakes made, the ape city is saved by Kong and Co.
- 16. Richard hides while the escaped beasts are rounded up and sent back to the Lost World by Kong and Co. The authorities arrive, and reveal that Kong and Co. are no longer wanted, as everything that Richard said and did at the volcano was broadcast live by the news crew, and cleared the names of Kong and Co. Lukas reluctantly hides Richard from the authorities, afraid that he will reveal the existence of the Lost World to everyone on Earth. Richard, now a fugitive, takes off while swearing revenge on everyone, including Botila.
- 18: Richard is revealed to have snuck back onto the abandoned Kong Island.
- 22. While everyone was busy dealing with Botila's attempts at conquering the world, Richard, left to his own devices on Kong Island, completely renounces his humanity and turns himself into a grotesque mutant cyborg using his own mad science, the stolen scientific secrets of the apes, and a sample of Kong's DNA. He beats and captures Kong, and brings him and Botila to Kong Island.
- 23. Richard lets his Frankenstein-ian "Zombie Bionobots" hunt Botila (whose head he eventually flicks into the ocean) across Kong Island, which he is going to lure Lukas and Co. to using Kong. As Richard prepares to kill Lukas, Kong is released from his laser cage by Botila's rebelling lackeys and Jonesy and starts fighting Richard and the Zombie Bionobots. Richard rejects all of Lukas's attempts at reasoning with him as he tries to murder him and Kong, and is eventually overpowered and sealed with the laser cage that he had earlier used on Kong. The military arrests Richard (as well as Botila) and he gets hauled off while screaming that he will never give up on trying to eliminate Kong and Lukas.
Heinousness: Brag and Wheeler were just poachers turned hired goons who were unceremoniously dropped in Season Two.
Botila turned out to be pretty bad when she finally deposed Richard, in that all of her claims of wanting to conquer the world for the betterment of artificial life eventually fell flat, with it becoming clear that she was just a megalomaniac whose methods were tantamount to Robots Enslaving Robots ("If I can't be a liberator of A.I.s, I'll have to be a conqueror!") She never quite managed to sink to the same depths as Richard, though, the closest that she ever came being when she held the entire Earth for ransom (as in, everyone surrender to me, or be destroyed) by hijacking a Kill Sat. She also had the Freudian Excuse of being a power-hungry misanthrope due to Richard's abusive treatment of her (she wanted all of the power in the world because she never had any under Richard); that, coupled with everything that humanity at large had done to the planet, colored her perception that humans were all inherently dangerously flawed and self-destructive beings who were undeserving of the Earth.
Mitigating Factors: He Used to Be a Sweet Kid who showed concern for his brother and admiration for their father, but, after meeting Kong, he changed for the worse, with the first sign of trouble being him grinning while telling Lukas that the police will probably capture or destroy Kong. During his father's funeral, he says that he will make the man's dream come true, but even Botila could see through this, making the snide aside, "You mean yours." Later on, we see him deleting much of his father's humanitarianism-focused files ("Oh, father, where's the profit in that?"/"Dad's concept was a complete waste of time and money") while looking for research of his father's that he could weaponize after stating, "While my father did appreciate my genius, I think he also felt threatened, knowing how completely I'd overshadow him." When Lukas tries appealing to him ("Richard, you've got to get off the destructive path you're on. I know the kid in that photograph is still inside you somewhere!") in their childhood home in the forest, Richard does give a forlorn look at the picture, but then smashes it while basically declaring That Man Is Dead.
Botila was his most advanced creation and constant companion, but he treated her like crap, seeing her as a slave at worst, and "hired help" (as he put it after scoffing at the very notion of her being his "partner") at best, hence the eventual Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal.
- Botila: It will not work.
Richard: Why? It's a brilliant idea.
Botila: It will not work because I will not do it.
Richard: I'm not asking you, Botila. I'm commanding you!
Botila: You cannot force me to do what I do not want to do.
Richard: Actually, this is the basis of our relationship.
Later:
- Botila: Richard, please return me to my body.
Richard: Why would I do that? I can make a thousand robots like you to serve me in any form I want.
Haven't been here in a while, but I think I've found three more EC comics examples. I'll detail two here, from 1951's The Vault Of Horror #18, and 1950's Tales From the Crypt #21.
Doctor Perdo
The story "Dying To Lose Weight" deals with an issue that's unfortunately relatable to many people, namely body image and weight loss, as well as how some people prey on people's insecurities. This tells of a town with four prominent overweight citizens, who are otherwise descent folk but have some troubles in life with weight issues. Enter Doctor Perdo, a travelling salesman who claims he has a miracle pill that can cut down calories with out even the need to exercise. Perdo proclaims that while the pill costs much, it'll do wonders. Sure enough, the four pay their price and the pill starts slim them down.
Their love and social lives improve and they gather to thank the good doctor as he leaves town. Soon the pill starts to work too well, the four folk(which include a teenage girl) begin to gruesomely waste away and die while their families watch helplessly.
A doctor is called in, and during an autopsy, he makes a horrible discovery: the "Pills" are actually tapeworm eggs, which hatch in the stomach and subsequently devour the victims from the inside out. As the uncaring Perdo skips town with his money to avoid the police, he decides to escape through a graveyard, where he knows those four poor people are buried. As he hides in a Mausoleum, he tries to slip into a coffin...which happens to contain both the corpse of one of his victims and the mutant tape-worm hatched from her body, who gorges itself on the evil con-man.
Heinousness
Perdo doesn't have a high bodycount, but he still knowingly condemned four innocent people to die horrific, painful deaths without a shred of remorse(there's even a part where he snidely remarks that he has four "customers" resting in the cemetary)for nothing more than money,one of whom was a teenage girl. Hell,given he's a travelling conman, it's possible this isn't even the first time people have suffered from his get-rich schemes. What's even worse is the fact that he is preying on these people's insecurities and body issues so he can profit from deceiving and murdering them.
Verdict
Perdo is a piece of work, and one of the most deserving victims EC comics has ever created
The Tunnel-Keeper
This next story is more standard horror comic fare. The story Terror Ride follows a young couple on their honeymoon dropping by a mostly abandoned fairground. The only working ride seems to be a "Tunnel of Love" boatride. The man at the ticket booth welcomes them in, and things seem pretty standard, but then they notice the displays lined along the sides of the tunnel are anything but. George and Ruth see figures arranged in grotesque murder scenes, brandishing threatening weapons and bleeding realistic blood.
Then their boat bumps into something. George gets out to investigate and sees the obstacle is a real corpse. As Ruth becomes more frightened, the two wade through a corridor of more corpse-like displays. As they near then end, Ruth declares that the owner must be a deranged lunatic, and the ticket booth man arrives to confirm her suspicions.
As he furiously exposits, people would go to his tunnel and mock the fake looking wax figures he made. Fed up, he decided to make more realistic ones out of real people, and declares that George and Ruth are next. As he advances towards them, he slips on the dock and gets pulled under his tunnel's water wheel. As George kindly puts it: "His own Diabolical ride finally destroyed him!" They than decide to continue their honeymoon.
Heinousness
This guy isn't as personally loathsome as Tobosa or Perdo, but he's definitely one of the more bloodthirsty villains. He not only kills multiple people, but mutilates their bodies and turns them into sick murder scenes. His only given reason is that he didn't like people making fun of his work, and he takes sadistic joy in chasing down his two would-be victims. A mitigating factor would probably be that his story is rather short and hardly expands on him behind the big motive dump before his clumsy demise.
Verdict
I'm a bit unsure at the moment.
All witches, all skeletons, all jack O Lanterns, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch...watch the magic pumpkin, Watch...
to Jinmen, Costello, Pierrot, the Cheshire Cat, Richard Remy, and the Tunnel Keeper.
Abstain on Dr. Perdo. His MO is nasty, but 4 people isn’t terribly high.
The Johnny Socko C Ms are in drafts
Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Feb 7th 2020 at 11:09:04 AM
I have no idea what I am doingI'd actually go
on Pedro and
on the Tunnel Keeper. Pedro's body count may be small, but just going from that description, infecting teenagers with tapeworms that eat them from the inside just for money/For the Evulz is easily despicable and heinous enough to qualify, and the fact that everyone in the setting is horrified shows it easily meets the heinous factor.
Keep in mind that I've never read these comics and am just going by the effortpost, but based on that description the Tunnel Keeper just seems like a standard horror villain. Kills a bunch of unnamed people (which is Offscreen Villany), tries to kill the protagonists...that is quite literally every slasher movie villain of all time. If he counts, then we'd basically have to consider hundreds of random generic slasher flick villains Complete Monsters because again, that's just standard horror film villain stuff with nothing beyond that baseline, especially in a horror series it doesn't stand out as particuarly henious. Also the fact that the protagonists make fun of how he died and the ending of "They just continue their honeymoon happily ever after" implies that he's being Played for Laughs, which would make him not count as well.
He could have, but the whole weird nature of his true identity (he is amnesiac and wanted to discover his true identity before, while leading his pirates on killing, tyrannizing and raping and wanted to fight Violence Jack, because he thought he can tell him who he is) gives me the pause. The final pages of Shin Violence Jack revealed his true face
◊ and it revealed to be Akira's face. What does this means i have no idea (it never followed upon or explained in any way as Shin Violence Jack was released after the original manga has ended, so all reveals in it were not addressed in original manga).
Also Miki is not a "human dog in it", well kinda of, her
◊ reveal
◊ is also confusing.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 7th 2020 at 9:08:42 PM
Sure to Dry Eyes, the Jinmen extension, Costello, Pierrot, the Cat & Doctor Richard Remy.
Botila sounds like a good MB candidate though.
That being said, I'll give an easy yes to Doctor Perdo, and I'll have to disagree with WaryHoglet and abstain to the Tunnel Keeper. The corpses are shown and thus there's an established pattern and modus operandi even though the murders aren't directly shown. As such, it isn't pure offscreen villainy. The Evil Is Petty stuff also helps him in his case.
"Also the fact that the protagonists make fun of how he died and the ending of "They just continue their honeymoon happily ever after" implies that he's being Played for Laughs, which would make him not count as well."
This is the part that gives me concern because I'm not sure he's, indeed, taken seriously enough.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Feb 8th 2020 at 9:51:48 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Gonna change
To Dr. Pedro. Keeping
to Tunnel Keeper unless we get word on him not being taken seriously. Given that the tunnel is full of corpses of his victims, it puts him far ahead of almost every other Tales From a The Crypt CM in terms of body count.
Edited by PureGrainAlkaSeltzer on Feb 7th 2020 at 12:04:38 PM
I have no idea what I am doing
Pedro and Tunnel Keeper (it isn't Offscreen Villainy if we see the effects of the villains actions)
Yeah after rereading I agree that its not quite Offscreen Villainy since the bodies are shown, so I'll take that back, but "killed a lot of people" still is just pretty standard slasher villain. While I'll admit I'm not familiar with the series, horror stuff generally requires a much higher standard of heinousness because the concept of the genre is built around monsters who do terrible things and gruesomely kill people, and just being a serial killer with a large body count doesn't seem quite enough for me. Couple that with the fact that according to the description the protagonists just make fun of him and continue along Happily Ever After and I'm still a
unless further info is posted that disproves those points against his inclusion.
Also for people who are familiar with Danganronpa - has Tsumugi Shirogane ever been brought up as a Complete Monster canidate? Because I couldn't find her brought up in this thread at all in a search and that surprises me because I think she's certainly at least borderline - the only reason she wouldn't qualify is the fact that she's just taking orders from the Bigger Bad and since they never appear onscreen I'm not sure that disqualifies her. I might do an effort post for her inclusion sometime this week but I wanted to check to see if she hasn't been disqualified for any reason yet.
She has not to my knowledge.
I'm leaning yes to Pedro but to the ride guy...leaning no. Fact of the matter is I don't think he's heinous enough by EC horror standard here. We're talking oodles of depravity in general. Serial killers with huge bodycounts are everywhere in EC. Maniacs, monsters and more. One story has a vampire with potentially dozens of corpses, there's a TV channel for monsters that kills loads of people daily, normal serial killers who amass loads of bodies...can't see this one as heinous enough.
Pedro I cut slack for uniqueness.
Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 7th 2020 at 10:48:16 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I have wanted to do Tsumugi Shirogane myself. The main issue that has given me pause is heinousness- when compared to Junko, who brought down the entire world, presumably killed trillions, ran the remains like an Evil Overlord, hosted multiple seasons of an Immoral Reality Show, and such, Tsumugi is kind of a small fry. Then again, V3 apparently takes place in an Alternate Universe, so I am unsure of how that affects the heinousness standard.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 7th 2020 at 11:23:03 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.![]()
Danganronpa V3 does indeed take place in an Alternate Universe where Junko, along with everyone in the first two games, is a Show Within a Show fictional character and all of her crimes were just part of the Show Within a Show. From my perspective that means saying Tsumugi is less heinous than Junko is basically irrelevant since Junko doesn't exist in the game Tsumugi is in.
Edited by WaryHoglet on Feb 7th 2020 at 11:24:22 AM
