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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#200776: Feb 6th 2020 at 10:24:00 AM

Also, possible quotes for Sigma image:

"Evolution requires sacrifice."

"Is this the end? No its the beginning. The beginning of my new world!"

Taken from this moment at 18:14 and 19:32 time marks:

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 6th 2020 at 9:24:18 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200777: Feb 6th 2020 at 10:30:41 AM

[tup]Tamamamo no Mae. The nine tailed Fox and one of the three great evils of Japanese yokai.

Tengu emperor Sutoku has an fe from what I heard right ?

I know you might do oni king shuten doji

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200778: Feb 6th 2020 at 10:39:31 AM

Summers and Tamamo.

(Offtopic: think Corey Burton and Tom Kane have bought fought against and played a CM in the same work. Talking To Himself indeed)

Writeup started for Escape Artist EP, should be up by Sunday.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#200779: Feb 6th 2020 at 10:46:19 AM

[tup] to Tamamo

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200782: Feb 6th 2020 at 10:56:16 AM

[up][up]Shit, you know what? That's probably in my fine with this week's batch. Lemme send an email to myself to do that when I get home.

EDIT: Since the Redwall image possibility is Cluny, maybe use the current page quote for the caption and this new quote for the page quote?

"Laugh, yes laugh all you like, but stay hidden while you value your miserable lives. I am Tsarmina, Queen of the Thousand Eyes. Before I am finished with Mossflower, every creature who defies me will wish that its mother had never given birth to it. The crying and the dying will be loud and long. Now let me hear you laugh at that!"
Tsarmina Greeneyes, Mossflower

Edited by ACW on Feb 6th 2020 at 2:02:53 PM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#200783: Feb 6th 2020 at 11:10:58 AM

[up]I agree with that. What with Sigma image and quote though?

Also, this entry is kinda awkward:

Complete Monster: The film amalgamates the characteristics of the manga's first and second chapters' killers. Obsessed with beauty, this version of the cafe manager kidnaps women, chopping off and keeping their hands, then leaves the corpses in public places to create his depraved aesthetic. Linked to deaths of four women, the manager nearly kills Yu/Yoru Morino as well. Stopped by Itsuki Kamiyama revealing he holds the manager's journal detailing his entire modus operandi and forced to flee town, he no doubt intends to pursue more victims.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 6th 2020 at 10:11:32 PM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#200784: Feb 6th 2020 at 11:11:52 AM

[tup] to Chuck Summers and Tamamamo no Mae.

RIP Kirk Douglas.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#200785: Feb 6th 2020 at 11:51:39 AM

@Stellarvore Thanks! Same here.

[tup] Chuck and Mae.

RIP Kirk Douglas.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#200786: Feb 6th 2020 at 11:56:13 AM

I still have some problems with cutting the Slum King. And before you say anything, I'm aware of the Word of God rule, I just think there's a difference between the creator telling you how to interpret a character and the creator saying something about the mechanics of their universe that makes it clear a character has agency.

Here are two contrasting examples:

  1. There's a character we're thinking of cutting due to them apparently demonstrating one or more redeeming qualities. The creator goes on record stating that they view said character as pure evil. However, this isn't factored into our decision, since it's just the creator's own interpretation of the character.
  2. There's a a character we're thinking of cutting due to apparent agency issues, since while they're certainly malevolent and sadistic, it's not clear if they could have made the choice to not be evil. But the creator goes on record as saying that said any being with enough intelligence and the capacity for independent thought (rather than just being an "automaton" who acts in "pre-programmed" ways) can choose between good and evil. Since they're talking about the mechanics of the universe, is it really appropriate to disregard what they have to say?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200787: Feb 6th 2020 at 11:58:06 AM

Curious where did Nagai say he has agency. I'd be fine keeping if he did.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200788: Feb 6th 2020 at 12:19:27 PM

[up][up] I mean, I see what you're saying, but then that's bad writing.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#200790: Feb 6th 2020 at 1:43:06 PM

I found a typo at the Star Wars: Point of Divergence entry. It says "Sidious tries to kill her him using force lightning". I'd fix it myself, but I'm not sure if the entry is supposed to be referring to Luke, Leia or both.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200791: Feb 6th 2020 at 1:46:29 PM

Ah, looked at the EP, and I THINK it should be kill her himself.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200792: Feb 6th 2020 at 1:51:43 PM

I don't think Go Nagai has ever said the King has agency. Just that other beings in his cosmology who might be expected not to actually do.

But this is a case where the character is explicitly created from someone's regret for one purpose and fulfills it. If anything changes, we can add it back later.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#200793: Feb 6th 2020 at 2:11:55 PM

I can check it out... been meaning to get to Violence Jack.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200794: Feb 6th 2020 at 2:48:24 PM

Okay, added to the fanfic reformat draft:

  • Kim Possible fanfic series Bonnie's Curse: Monkey Fist, the primary villain of Bonnie's Curse and Redemption, and proves much darker than his canon self. When what was supposed to be a simple mission of stopping him from stealing the Lotus Blade goes wrong, Monkey Fist puts Kim into a coma, and afterwards kidnaps and attempts to drug Bonnie in order to exploit her precognition. After being foiled by Ron, Monkey Fist steals the Amulet of Anubis, then tricks Dr. Drakken into creating a magic amplifier for him before trying to kill Shego and torturing and crippling Drakken. He then attacks Go City, stealing another magical artifact and killing the Wego twins, which drives Hego to insanity. After that, Monkey Fist has Fukushima kidnap an unnamed scientist and forces him to recreate the amplifier, then orders Fukushima to kill him and his family, children included. He kills Sensei in order to use his blood for a ritual in order to channel the magical power into himself, then kills Fukushima and goes on a rampage throughout Europe, demanding to be made supreme ruler and killing over 12,000 people. At some point during his rampage, Monkey Fist Mind Rapes a psychic woman into becoming an insane Serial Killer. When Ron, Bonnie, Shego, Mego, Yori, and Hirotaka finally confront him at Stonehenge, Monkey Fist traps the latter five inside their own minds, forcing them to relive their worst fears or memories, while he attempts to kill Ron.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#200795: Feb 6th 2020 at 3:08:55 PM

[tup] Chuck Summers.

[tup] Tamamo no Mae.

I got one more in me for tonight before I go catch Birds of Prey (2020).

The Thirst is a 2006 vampire movie that uses vampirism as an unsubtle allegory for drug addiction, abuse and withdrawal, in what can be described as Requiem for a Dream...with vampires! It stars Clare Kramer as its female lead Lisa, and is at best known for having a few Buffyverse veteran actors in it, and maybe having Clare as a stripper. The cinematography and the music leave much to be desired, and a lot of the acting is eating up the scenery.

The film is about a young couple of recovering drug addicts, Maxx and Lisa - Max is doing good on his progress, but Lisa has continued her job as a stripper; their relationship is further dented when it's revealed that Lisa has cancer and has been keeping it a secret, which leads to Lisa killing herself after encountering a mysterious woman. Maxx almost goes off the deep end, and is taken to a raving club with his friends where he thinks he sees Lisa. As it turns out, Lisa has been turned and recruited into a sadistic vampire clan dubbed "The Family", who decide to take Maxx in with their addictive vampire blood drug called the Thirst. (This predates The Lost Boys third movie by about four years by the way).

And who is the leader of the family ? Meet Darius (whose actor I found out, also voiced King Runeard).

Who is Darius ? What does he do ?

An ancient, and rather hammy vampire and head of "The Family"; these guys are the epitome of Interplay of Sex and Violence who practice Rape, Pillage, and Burn wherever they travel. The clans matriarch Mariel, is the woman who approached Lisa, and take her as one of their own. They even use The Thirst to influence her, but outside of that she is a Reluctant Monster. At first ? The Family run a rave and sex club called "Inferno" where all manner of debauchery takes place. After Maxx sees Lisa in their club, and seeks her out, Darius and his clan go on a rampage, slaughtering all but a few within. Darius gives explicit Kill Them All orders and reprimands Lisa for not killing Maxx.

Maxx tracks down the family in their hideout, where Darius captures him and introduce him to their "hosts"; an elderly couple who seem dead at first...only for it to be revealed they are constantly being tortured and sometimes molested by the Family. Darius and the Family egg Lisa on to either kill or turn Maxx. Maxx is turned, and easily swayed under Darius' wing with the influence of the Thirst, turning Maxx into a monster who happily slaughters some of his old friends before withdrawal kicks in.

After learning about Darius plans to use a camp to lure and slaughter children like he did with his sex club, Lisa and Maxx escape the family as they go through withdrawals together. After they kill "The Duke", one of Darius' grunts, they are tracked down to a hospital by the Family and are forcibly taken to the "camp", along with Sara, a young girl that Lisa befriended when she was still alive. After Sara is killed on the ride, Maxx and Lisa take this as a distraction to kill the Family on the "camp grounds" as the sun is starting to rise. They get into a final fight with Darius himself, who brags about how he'll have the children to himself after he kills the couple. Luckily, Maxx manages to crucify Darius to a wall with a nail gun, and leave him to burn to death. The film ends with Maxx and Lisa allowing themselves to burn to death in the sun, after disposing of Mariel.

Mitigating factors

Darius and the family set the standard in stone, with Darius leading a vampire clan on continuous rape and murder sprees; their torture of an elderly couple; their plan to devour children at a camp, which Darius says he's looking forward too.

Now all the members of the family are nasty customers, with exception of Lisa. Even Maxx becomes a vicious vampire when he's first recruited, although that largely seems to be the influence of the Thirst, and more of the same of the Family's activity, with Darius again being their leader and master.

As for redeeming qualites ? Nah. To be fair, just about all the members of the Family don't really care for each other, and are a lot of the time at each others throats. They are all vile, sex and murder crazed psychos, with Darius trying to present himself as this clever, charismatic type, but is ultimately egotistical leader. He doesn't even shrug at the deaths of his family members and is pretty much "more kids for me!" during his fight with Maxx.

Edited by Beast on Oct 13th 2020 at 7:59:20 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200796: Feb 6th 2020 at 3:42:30 PM

[tup] Darius.

Just had a little incident with an unsupervized pot. I’ll be fine.

[down] Burning tomato sauce.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 6th 2020 at 6:46:53 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#200799: Feb 6th 2020 at 4:12:04 PM

[tup]Chuck, Tamamo (always up for a mythological CM) and Darius

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200800: Feb 6th 2020 at 4:12:05 PM

Just a reminder these get swapped tomorrow:

Also, if anyone has a better Arrowverse header, go for it.


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