During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Nyarlathotep.
ACW: The Fanscription folder looks good.
Also RIP Kirk Douglas.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 6th 2020 at 7:55:14 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadGuys I’ve brought it up before but when someone dies “did he play any C Ms” is perhaps not the most suitable reaction.
Yes to Nyarlathotep
Another Nyarly. Jeez, he's got most CM incarnations than Satan himself.
Has ever been a version who doesn't count ?
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He fought a CM in Holocaust 2000 tough. He was 103 years old, BTW. That's some good record
Edited by MovieFan2000 on Feb 6th 2020 at 7:11:51 AM
I know there's a Nyarly in Shin Megami Tensei who doesn't count, I think.
Nother Nyarly
What Is the Work?
The Night Stalker is a 1986 cheesy cop movie that, despite the title and being made in the 80s, has nothing to do with Richard Ramirez.
Sgt. J.J. Striker is an alcoholic Cowboy Cop who must stop a murderer going around Los Angeles killing prostitutes. Guess who I’m proposing?
Who Is he?
Chuck Summers (played by late B-movie character actor Robert Z’dar) was a mercenary who sought immortality by becoming a Serial Killer.
What has he done?
After getting wounded and sent to a hospital, Chuck requested a Chinese master of magic to train him how to heal himself with his mind. There, Chuck learned that by killing people, their life and strength will be transferred to himself, making him immortal (really just immune to bullets) and stronger with every murder; the more he kills, the longer he lives. Starting with animals, Chuck moved on to humans, hoisting them up in the air and snapping their necks, having done so to countless people. Once they died, Chuck would paint their faces to complete the ritual.
Doing this to multiple prostitutes throughout the movie, Striker’s partner tries to catch Chuck in a hotel. Finding a dead woman with face paint on a bed, Chuck jumps through the third story window, snaps his neck, and tosses him out the window. When the prostitutes’ pimp starts getting annoyed at the loss of his women, he tries to catch Chuck himself in a warehouse. Chuck kills him and his men. When Striker finds his actual hideout, he notices some newspaper clippings of the missing prostitutes on the wall. With Striker’s prostitute friends, Renee and Denise, and captain waiting in the cop car for him to return, Chuck kills the captain and takes the prostitutes hostage. A climactic shootout occurs within a larger warehouse with Chuck vs the entire police squad, Chuck shooting some cops while taking Denise with him to be killed. While killing some more cops, Striker manages to defeat Chuck by… shooting him with a flare gun, which makes Chuck to fall into a vat of molten steel and explode.
The day is saved. Cue 80s power ballad.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero.
Heinousness?
Main villain, nobody to compete with.
Now despite the fact that he doesn’t say anything else beyond Chinese magic chants, at one point we see him smiling while murdering a man in a flashback, and he gives a faint smile while killing some cops at the end, showing him to be nothing but a vicious sadist out for himself.
Conclusion
A keep for sure.
It's Spooky Month!Yes to Chuck...have an interesting example for today...from Japanese folklore, I give us one of the more infamous monsters, Tamamo no Mae.
Who is Tamamamo no Mae?
One of the Nihon San Dai Aku Yōkai, or "Three Most Evil Yokai of Japan", alongside the Oni Shutendoji and the wicked spirit of Emperor Sutoku...the tale of Tamamo no Mae originates in a number of prints and others that was added to immensely and taken from other legends....in a nutshell, she's a Kitsune, a shapeshifting fox Yōkai who was known for her malice and ambition. Born in China she became a human sorceress who achieved the status of a Kitsune.
In the Japanese legend, she becomes Daji, the consort of King Zhou of Shang in China....becoming famed for her depravity, Daji hosts orgies, debaucheries, violent revels and horrifically oppresses the people, having new forms of torture invented and killing people by the thousand, eventually bringing about a civil war and the fall of Shang before fleeing justice and escaping to the Indian kingdom of Magadha.
back to her old tricks, she became known as Lady Kayō, seduced the King Kalmashapada and drove him to depravity, having him murder priests, eat children and kill tons of people. Eventually she lost her hold on Kalmashapada and fled back to China in time for the Zhou dynasty, where she became known as Bao Si, seduced King You and...you guessed it. Horrible atrocities, tortures, violence, etc and so on. Again, she escapes when the Kingdom of Zhou is ruined.
Eventually, she returned to Japan in disguise as a human child where she was adopted by a couple and named Mikuzume...eventually, Mikuzume was brought before the emperor where she dazzled him, and eventually took the name Tamamo no Mae, seducing Emperor Toba. Quickly using magic to poison Toba and usurp his authority, she attempted to take over.
The famous Onmyoji, Abe no Yasunari arrives here and realizes Tamamo no Mae is responsible, convincing the Emperor and exposing her. Tamamo no Mae flees...and is son responsible for the deaths of a number of women and children (for food or spite, t's unclear). The Emperor ordered a hunt to commence and sent his best warriors with an army of 80,000 to kill the fox.
They eventually catch her, and the army leaders Miruanosuke and Kazusanosuke defeated Tamamo no Mae, with the latter beheading her....though her spite led to a curse that killed the Emperor childless leading to a massive conflict and civil war in Japan.
Mitigating Qualities?
Of the Three, Shutendoji himself may be worth the EP, as he's bad, but of them? Tamammo no Mae is far and away the most shockingly horrible. (Sutoku isn't worth much discussion)...now, it's legend that's sometimes hard to weave into a narrative as much has been added to and some is even contradictory. There's a redemption narrative for her soul, but this is considered to a much later addition in the 16th century from a pro-Buddhist standpoint, so I don't feel inclined to count it much to the original legend...there's enough to Tamamamo no Mae's original story that paints a frightening enough picture of what she's like and the countless atrocities she's responsible for. A lot of Japanese myth like this tends to come from sources such as wood carvings and old poems that helps form the narratives
Conclusion?
Think she's a pretty clear keep for Japanese myth.
For other actors who've both played and fought complete monsters, I know we have Bela Lugosi and Samuel L. Jackson.

RIP Kirk.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 6th 2020 at 2:52:05 PM