TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#200676: Feb 5th 2020 at 7:58:00 AM

[up] I think in that case we go solely by things presented in the work

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#200677: Feb 5th 2020 at 8:07:50 AM

I just want to ask you for curiosity: has ever been a possible candidate from a movie about the Armenian genocide ?

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200678: Feb 5th 2020 at 8:33:00 AM

Cut the Slum King.

[up] Fuck if I know.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 5th 2020 at 11:33:29 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#200679: Feb 5th 2020 at 9:18:23 AM

Based on the EPs, [tup] to Bachibachi and [tup] to Demon Scorpion.

[up][up]I feel something like that would be too contentious to judge.

Anyone maybe want to weigh in on whether or not Peyton is worth an EP? If she's not, I won't even write it.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 5th 2020 at 9:23:07 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200680: Feb 5th 2020 at 9:46:58 AM

@MovieFan2000 Try it, by all means.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200681: Feb 5th 2020 at 9:52:50 AM

Why would you think Peyton comes even close to the CM trope? She went insane after her husband died and lost her child in a miscarriage.

I do not care how bad she seems or what else she's done or anything else. This is a million percent disqualifying.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 5th 2020 at 9:54:59 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#200682: Feb 5th 2020 at 9:57:49 AM

[up]Well her relationship with her husband was never really focused on and her first scene was her learning about losing everything due to insurance not covering his suicide, so it seemed more about losing her lifestyle. That said, yeah, losing her child messed with her head big time and set everything else off. I'd argue her rushing to replace the child diminishes the value of the loss, but I do agree though ultimately that as batshit as she is, she can't count because of how warped her mind was by the incident and did at least show clearly legit sadness over the loss to begin with.

Great performance by Rebecca De Mornay though in a very underrated movie. While my pick would have been Robert De Niro for Cape Fear, it's easy to see why she was the first Best Villain winner ever.

Moving on, here's the reordering of the FS entries in chronological order (as well as editing capitalization with the video titles and putting in the YouTube link for the Lion King one instead of Channel Awesome):

  • Fanscription:
    • "What if Luke Skywalker Died in 'Return of the Jedi'?": Emperor Palpatine, as always, is the sadistic tyrant of the Galactic Empire. Overseeing the creation of the Starkiller Base by ordering the hollowing out of the moon Endor, Palpatine lures the Rebel forces into a trap and tries to tempt Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side, only to resort to torturing him with Force Lightning when the latter refuses. Palpatine also issued several contingency plans to set into motion in the events of his death, as shown when Endor is rigged to detonate, ensuring posthumously that Palpatine took enemies and allies alike with him in a fiery blaze. Appearing again as a slightly different version in "What If Rey Joined Kylo Ren In The Last Jedi?" as a posthumous hologram, Palpatine demands the activation of a protocol that when unleashed would cause the deaths of billions regardless of which side they are on.
    • "What If 'Ghostbusters II' Was Better?": This take on Vigo the Carpathian is much darker than his canon counterpart. A blood tyrant who killed and tortured thousands in life, as a ghost, he lords over a hellish dimension where he torments the spirits of his victims and feeds off their fear. Orchestrating a series of hauntings in New York to grow his power and influence, and according to a prophecy would return from the dead with a bride and child at his side; from this, he targets Peter's pregnant fiancée Dana and plans to bind her soul to his with a cursed wedding ring. Through his minions, he gets the Ghostbusters shut down as he continuously makes advancements on Dana. When the time is right, Vigo's army is unleashed upon the city, possessing its many statues to wreak havoc and endanger its people. When the Ghostbusters team up with Vigo's vengeful victims to break his hold, Vigo briefly possesses Peter and attempts to forcibly marry Dana in a last ditch effort to win.
    • "What If Scar Raised Simba In 'The Lion King'?", Scar is as monstrous as his animated counterpart. Kidnapping Simba after staging a wildebeest stampede, Scar brands Simba's right eye and brainwashes him into believing he was his father. He was also apathetic to the hyenas' overhunting, leading to the devastation of the Pride Lands. Subjecting the young cub to years of systematic abuse and starvation, Scar and Simba invade the Pride Lands with Scar halting his victory to gleefully rub Simba's transformation in Mufasa's face before killing him. Scar then captures the crown prince Kion, and plans to execute him the next morning, falsely promising to spare him if he affirmed his rule to the pride. When Simba betrays him, Scar tries to kill him without an iota of remorse.
    • "What If The Joker Was In 'The Dark Knight Rises'?" two-parter: The Joker as always is a cruel monster. After being released from Arkham Asylum by Selina Kyle, the Joker decides he likes the new Gotham. Taking over the Narrows, the Joker runs a court where he sentences people to death by walking across the frozen river. Angered at Bane, Joker has his men suicide bomb his territory. Taking Gordon and his men hostage, Joker taunts him, shoots some of his men, and attacks Miranda Tate, before sentencing them to the ice. Killing Bane and Talia al Ghul, the Joker tries to make sure the bomb goes off, determined that they all go out together.
    • "What If We Fixed 'The Haunted Mansion' Movie?": The Phantom, real name Henry Ravenswood, the owner of the mansion, is worse than any villain from the film. Once a wealthy man who got rich from mining coal and was searching for the gold from Big Thunder Mountain, Ravenswood murdered four of his daughter Melanie's past suitors to keep the gold for himself. Ravenswood killed the fifth, Jake, on his and Melanie's wedding night, when Jake found some of the gold, before blowing up the mine to cover his tracks, killing several miners and destroying a large portion of Thunder Mesa. Ravenswood's final living act was to curse everyone at the party, including Melanie, to a never-ending cycle of torment. In the present, Ravenswood rules the mansion and the Phantom Canyon with an iron fist, tricking the caretaker Clyde into helping him keep power. When Jim Evers, Sarah, and her children arrive, Ravenswood tries to repeatedly stop them from learning the truth, including invading their dreams and attempting to kill them in a mine shaft, before trying to kill the two children just to spite them. A petty, selfish man, Ravenswood saw everyone and everything in the mansion as his property to do with as he pleases.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 5th 2020 at 10:45:53 AM

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#200683: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:08:50 AM

I want to vote, but right now I'm too depressed by my ferret dying.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200686: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:13:11 AM

Sorry for you Klavice. My condoleances.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200687: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:16:55 AM

Take some time, Klavice. Condolences.

Future...just for the future? No, her 'rushing to replace' the child does not invalidate that. It compounds it. Her mind is broken by a loss, she's trying to find a replacement. That's obvious mitigation, like to levels where it should be obvious there's nothing to discuss.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#200689: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:26:25 AM

I distinctly remember this being brought up when she was EP'd before. No future. She went distraught at the death or her husband and stillborn child. That's one of the most blatant disqualifying factors a character can have.

[down][down] Ah. That might explain it

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Feb 5th 2020 at 2:02:13 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#200690: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:28:48 AM

@Lighty And that's why I was conflicted about it. Part of me thought maybe she was way more interested in punishing Claire ultimately than getting her life back. To a degree, that's true, but I agree that it ultimately doesn't devalue how much Peyton is truly hurting either though. I thought it was similar to Sebastian Caine's nastiness not being created by his invisibility, but compounded by it and I admit I was wrong.

@Awesome I did a search and didn't find a previous discussion. That's why I thought no one had brought it up before.

@ACW Can do. I drafted it all though too because I again did more than just reorder (again, capitalization in certain areas and changed a link). I added the updated entry to YMMV too. Was that okay?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 5th 2020 at 10:46:57 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200691: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:46:09 AM

[up][up]I think that was another lady who lost her unborn child and went insane as a result. Granted I don't remember the name but I don't think it was Peyton exactly.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 5th 2020 at 10:47:01 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#200692: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:56:34 AM

Please can I double-check the rules on when RWBY Volume 7 will be discussed: is it two weeks after it's been released for FIRST members or two weeks after it's been released to the general public (which would be three weeks after it's been released for FIRST members)?

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 5th 2020 at 7:02:35 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#200693: Feb 5th 2020 at 10:59:22 AM

All media are two weeks.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200694: Feb 5th 2020 at 11:00:35 AM

That doesn't answer the question Wyld was asking at all.

I'd say two weeks after for FIRST members.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 5th 2020 at 11:03:16 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#200695: Feb 5th 2020 at 11:00:51 AM

[up] But two weeks after which release?

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#200696: Feb 5th 2020 at 11:03:02 AM

I'm fine with either one, just checking which. Thanks, Lighty.

Anyone maybe want to weigh in on whether or not Peyton is worth an EP? If she's not, I won't even write it.

Is that Peyton from The Hand that Rocks the Cradle? If so, I'd be very leery about her eligibility as a candidate. The trauma of losing her husband (and how his life is lost) results in a miscarriage. It leaves her unhinged and fixated on the woman she blames for the tragedy and suffering she experiences. I think the insanity generated by her trauma may make her ineligible.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#200697: Feb 5th 2020 at 11:09:18 AM

[up]Yes. Plain yes to the second part.

[down]Benjamin Juma also lost a child, but Juma was a warlord though and the son he lost was grown, so not the same thing.

I'm thinking of doing an expansion on Whitehall since he appeared in flashbacks in Seasons 3 and 5. I haven't seen Season 6 yet though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 5th 2020 at 11:31:00 AM

SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200698: Feb 5th 2020 at 11:18:23 AM

I’m also leery on Peyton. Losing a child would be extremely traumatic.

Condolences on your ferret, Klavice.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200700: Feb 5th 2020 at 11:34:22 AM

Bullman brought up a good point: Do we just wanna give Fanscription its own folder at Fan Works?


Total posts: 326,048
Top