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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200551: Feb 3rd 2020 at 10:00:51 PM

@ LordYAM If done correctly in a fanfic with a viable reason, it actually can work. Plenty of Echoes's villains comes to mind, being versions of their original heroic selves who started out similarly and then... Changed for various reasons (the Freudian kind in general is the best way to make it work). But otherwise? I can see the issue.

That being said, abstaining on Dumbledore.

Get well soon Lightysnake!

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Feb 3rd 2020 at 7:27:50 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#200552: Feb 3rd 2020 at 10:26:20 PM

Get well soon Lighty I hope that it’s not that Coronavirus from China

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 3rd 2020 at 8:29:12 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#200553: Feb 3rd 2020 at 10:51:28 PM

What's the work that has the CM version of Batman? Couldn't find it under Batman.

[down]Thanks. That's ... some crazy Adaptational Villainy. Up there with Andre Toulon and of course, more recently, Hansel and Gretel.

Edited by Stellarvore on Feb 3rd 2020 at 1:01:17 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200554: Feb 3rd 2020 at 10:52:57 PM

Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham. It's in the elseworlds folder.

[up]We actually approved a cm version of snow white who was a Vampiric thing as well.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 3rd 2020 at 11:08:20 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#200555: Feb 3rd 2020 at 11:41:40 PM

I had just got done watching Murder Party and saw this on the YMNV page:

  • Complete Monster: Alexander is a sinister, seemingly wealthy man who organizes the titular "Murder Party" that lures in Chris Hawley, before taking him hostage. Alexander then asserts his dominance over the group of artists present and instructs them how to murder Christopher in a group effort. As the night goes on, Alexander plays sadistic mind games with the group and eventually reveals he's just a fry cook named Tim who planned to trick them all into committing a gruesome murder before killing all of them to steal their artwork and make it more valuable to sell when they were all dead. He immediately attempts to kill everyone present following this revelation.

......Uhhh, why is this here? Apparently he was voted up. I didn't see the discussion but this.... doesn't fit at all.

The film is a horror-comedy that is much more comedy oriented thsn horror, which is to say it doesn't take itself seriously at all. It is sprinkled with comedic deaths none of which are played seriously. Same goes with Alexander. Very shocked to see him up here.

It is basically in the same vein as Scary Movie.

Edited by username2527 on Feb 3rd 2020 at 11:46:25 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#200557: Feb 4th 2020 at 12:02:20 AM

Hm, that's odd. Lighty? I think you proposed him.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200558: Feb 4th 2020 at 12:11:59 AM

Welcome back, Bullman

Get well soon, Lighty.

[tdown] to Dumbledore. It just seems to be a total 180 from his previous character.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200559: Feb 4th 2020 at 12:51:26 AM

I wish they'd come here first, but I kinda like the expanded writeup of SQUIP.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#200560: Feb 4th 2020 at 12:55:06 AM

I have a question, but in Image Picking thread, do I need to create each thread for picking an image on each monster page or I can just crum it on a single thread?

Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#200561: Feb 4th 2020 at 1:57:02 AM

Hi everyone. I tried to write entries for the three I Spy villains, but I have some problems regarding their lengths (especially with the third one. I'm not sure there' s much more I can add...).

  • Rachel Wright is a corrupt agent of the Bureau of National Security. During her mission to retrieve the Switchblade, she was bribed by Arnold Gundars to give him the activation code of the plane and thwart her colleagues. After faking her death, she reveals to Gundars the location of the other BNS agents, causing him to send his henchmen to dispose of them. When fellow BNS agent Alex Scott finds the Switchblade, Rachel captures him and tortures him to make him reveal the new activation codes of the plane, knowing full-well it will allow Gundars's terrorist customer to nuke Washington D.C. When more BNS agents arrive, Rachel takes the opportunity to kill Gundars and his customer In the Back in order to steal the access to all his bank accounts. Cruel, manipulative and sadistic, Rachel has ultimately no loyalty to anyone but herself, and is willing to do the worst things as long as it benefits her.

  • Arnold Gundars is a notorious Arms Dealer who made his fortune by selling weapons to criminals and terrorists. After acquiring the undetectable plane "Switchblade", Gundars organizes a private party in his residence to gather the worst criminals on the planet and hold a secret auction to sell the plane to one of them. When some agents of the Bureau of National Security are sent to retrieve the plane, Gundars bribes one of them to help him get rid of the others. Ultimately, Gundars decides to sell the "Switchblade" to Zhu Tam, a ruthless terrorist who plans to bomb Washington D.C., and gives him everything he needs to accomplish his goal without a second thought.

  • Zhu Tam is a terrorist sent by his country's government to participate in an auction organized by Arnold Gundars in order to buy the "Switchblade", an invisible and totally undectable plane. After winning the auction, Zhu Tam installs a powerful nuclear bomb on the plane, and prepares to send it to Washington D.C.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200562: Feb 4th 2020 at 2:55:35 AM

And here. My batch.

  • Immortals after dark: Crom Cruach, from pleasure of a dark prince is the god of Human sacrifice and cannibalism and this world's version of Satan himself Inuniverse. Cruach seduced a teenage Valkyrie named Lucia into being his bride before revealing his true form and having her raped and tortured, forcing her to consume flesh from some of his victims and nearly driving her into suicide. Lucia later sealed Cruach away only for him to escape every five hundred years to try and torment her. Cruach revels in spurring on his followers into sacrificing innocents to him including children and in the present intends to use his special ability to infect people with a need to kill their loved ones to infect the entire world. Cruach intends to start the Apocalypse and watch as the entire of humanity descends into cannibalism and human sacrifice of their loves ones in his name. When Lucia and her new boyfriend Gareth Mac Rieve go to face him, Cruach tries to force Gareth into killing Lucia and when he refuses torments him with visions of him having actually killed her before making his intention to gangrape and murder Lucia. Cruach is ultimately a monstrous god whose only reason for tormenting innocents is because he finds it fun.
  • Uncanny: The shadowless real name Malleus the deceiver is a wicked witch who has murdered hundreds of people with magical talents called "Norns" and then consumed their souls to add their powers to her own. Kidnapping a boy named Harkon she molds him into a killer with Malleus being the architect behind the Salem witch trails in a bid for more power through murder, even killing a five year old child when her attempt to escape is foiled. Eventually killed, Malleus reruns from the dead, hundreds of years later to seak out an uncanny- a person with special magical talent- named Willow Jane, whose soul would give Malleus unlimited power. Killing the friends of Willow, Malleus twists them into her servants to use her in herhunt for Willow and even uses Willow's seven year old sister as hostage to draw her out, fully intending to kill both of them.
  • Carolyn Williams is a leader in a Human Trafficking ring. Carolyn lures in girls from around the world who are aged 14-21 and promises them jobs as models. Carolyn befriends them and brings to a party where she and her partner drug and then kidnap them. They then take them a warehouse where the girls are beaten and drugged into submission using heroin. They are then used as forced prostitutes for money with this operation having run for years and with an estimated victim count in the dozens.
  • The folk of the air: Prince Balekin Greenbriar desires the throne of Elfhame from his father, King Eldred. A psychopath from a young age, Balekin beat and abused his brother Cardan for his entire life even trying to force him to kill someone and when his father favours his other sibling Dain as his heir, launches a coup with h him personally murdering his family with only Cardan surviving. Imprisoned for his crimes, Balekin allies with the undersea and helps them lay siege to the land and it's populace, kidnaps heroine Jude Duarte and has her tortured for weeks in order to break her into his pet assassin and only allows her return if Cardan forces his subjects to not fight back as he unleashes the undersea to mass slaughter civilians with Balekin targeting the court of king roiben in particular due to a petty grudge, nearly having Roiben's consort burned alive out of spite. Balekin even tries to kill Cardan by poisoning him with a deadly drug and then frame Jude for the crime, willing to do anything to get the throne for himself.

Balekin goes at the bottom of the modern faerie tales tree. After alderKing.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 4th 2020 at 2:55:56 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200563: Feb 4th 2020 at 4:15:47 AM

Re: Murder Party: it may be a case like Detention where while there is some humor in the villain's actions and peoples reactions to him, overall the villain's actions and the villain himself are treated with the proper gravity (especially once he is actually revealed as the killer).

I haven't watched the movie (Murder Party), but if I'm not mistaken, such works can still have a monster.

[down][down] Oh. In that case I don't know what to say.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 4th 2020 at 8:54:25 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200564: Feb 4th 2020 at 5:07:51 AM

Actually, come to think of it, I think SQUIP's current entry is fine.

BTW, we also have a CM version of James Gordon.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#200565: Feb 4th 2020 at 5:11:03 AM

[up][up]The problem is, it isn't. Much of the film is him secretly planning to kill the main character, along with his employees but stopping to engage whacky hijinks with them such as shooting dope, getting into vulgar, swear-filled arguments and ordering a pizza.

By the time he actually does have anyone killed he is doped up by the others and impossible to take seriously. He is even killed by a dog getting high off cocaine and biting his lips and jaw.

Plus, he's probably not even heinous enough given the final villain of the film ends up brutally killing a room full of innocent people with an ax along with most of the main characters insanely declaring "EVERYONE DIES!" while doing it.

Edited by username2527 on Feb 4th 2020 at 5:11:41 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200566: Feb 4th 2020 at 5:14:06 AM

@acw: Youll still got Crom's quote.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200567: Feb 4th 2020 at 6:01:15 AM

Yeah, I've got it; I'm just not submitting it until I submit Crom himself.

Does Arrowverse Monster Reformat look good?

Nathanoraptor Since: Oct, 2010
#200568: Feb 4th 2020 at 6:09:05 AM

Here's a Disney villain fanfic EP!

What's the work?

The Jungle Book: my own remake is Exactly What It Says on the Tin; it is a loose rewrite of the 2016 film, taking several creative liberties, mostly drawn from the 1967 film; in particular, Rama (Mowgli's adoptive wolf father) is a separate character from Akela.

The main differences are in its portrayal of the three antagonists - whilst Shere Khan is portrayed as a Noble Demon, even getting a Heel–Face Turn, Louie and Kaa have a lot of Adaptational Villainy going on. It's the latter of the two I'm going to EP first.

Who is she?

Kaa, a large, deadly Indian python, is the fic's tertiary antagonist and far, far worse than she was than her counterparts in both the film and the 1967 cartoon. Unlike the film, where Kaa has only one scene and is, arguably, the least malicious of the antagonists, she's given a characterization that's downright evil. Far from being just a hungry predator, she's a murderous, sadistic psychopath with the demeanour of a serial killer.

We first meet her when Mowgli, washed downriver, gets lost in her lair. Showing him his past through her hypnosis, Kaa manipulates the man-cub into thinking that she will keep him safe, before wrapping her up in her coils and attempting to devour him. Fortunately, Mowgli's new favourite hero, Baloo, happened to be passing by; defeating the python, he manages to save Mowgli.

We next see Kaa, still seething from her previous defeat, when Raksha, Mowgli's adoptive wolf mother, is searching for him and ends up in Kaa's lair. Feigning politeness, she attempts to hypnotise and devour Raksha, sadistically relishing Raksha's fear and pain, even inviting Raksha to scream for her. When Raksha's pup Grey, who has followed Raksha, attacks her to protect his mother (knocking her head against a tree and biting her tail), she throws a violent tantrum and spitefully attempts to kill him, more out of bruised vanity and sadism than anything else (the injury was pretty minor). However, Raksha manages to knock her down long enough for them both to escape.

Kaa's final appearance is when, after his defeat at the hands of Mowgli, the severely injured King Louie is washed downriver into her lair. Mockingly addressing him as "your worshipfulness", Kaa drags the helpless, screaming ape off to be killed eaten, sadistically relishing the prospect of killing him as he begs for mercy.

Freudian Excuse or redeeming qualities?

One could argue that, since she is a python, killing other animals is just what she has to do to survive.

However, from the three scenes she has, it's clear that she's not just a predator. She's a psycho. As indicated by her self-aggrandizing titles (The secret of the tree, the living vine), she's vain to the point where she attempts to devour a wolf pup out of a minor slight to her ego and, in her enjoyment of tormenting her victims before killing them, she demonstrates a clear sadistic side. This is particularly shown in her scene with Raksha, where she shows an almost sadomasochistic relish in causing the wolf pain.

And there's nothing particularly redeeming about her showing Mowgli his past or her telling Raksha where Mowgli is; it's just a ploy to get them to let their guard down before she kills them.

Heinousness

Now, this is a tough one; of the three antagonists, Kaa has the fewest scenes and is easily the least active, mostly keeping to her lair.

However, in those three scenes, it's clear that she is in a class of her own when it comes to sheer depravity, most notably shown when she attempts to kill the wolf pup Grey in front of his mother, not out of hunger, but out of bruised pride and sheer sadism. At one point, Kaa appears to relish the taste of her own blood.

With Mowgli, Raksha, and eventually Louie, it's clear that she enjoys making her prey suffer to an almost sadomasochistic degree, particularly in her twisted enjoyment of eating her victims whilst they are alive and conscious; at one point, Kaa even states that she's going to let Raksha open her mouth simply so she can hear her scream.

In tormenting her victims, Kaa also demonstrates a twisted sense of humour; sadistically inviting Raksha to "join her for dinner" before attacking her and mockingly calling Louie "Your worshipfulness", before dragging him off to his doom, whilst he begs for mercy.

In conclusion, she's a violent, psychotic sadist; I would say she checks out in the heinous department.

Conclusion

I don't see any bar to Kaa counting here. She's a murderous, sadistic, thoroughly depraved narcissist who takes an almost sadomasochistic delight in inflicting pain upon her victims. Whilst she doesn't have as many scenes as the other two villains, she outdoes them both in sheer depravity. We've put other predators on the list for less.

[tup] from me. She's certainly nasty enough to count.

Edited by Nathanoraptor on Feb 4th 2020 at 2:51:57 PM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200569: Feb 4th 2020 at 6:17:23 AM

[tup] for Kaa. Nasty enough to not count as a simple predator acting on instinct.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200572: Feb 4th 2020 at 6:45:03 AM

Sure to Kaa.

BTW, I like the new Tales header. Is Rousseau Was Right correct though?

Arrowverse could make do with a better header. Aside from that, that page and Grimm Fairy Tales Monster Reformat may be all ready for swapping; I'll wait until Friday or after I hear from Lighty, whichever is first; ditto on the Baltimore order, though here's Duvic:

  • Judge Andre Duvic is a vicious judge in the service of The Spanish Inquisition who stops at nothing when pursuing Baltimore. Torturing and killing those he comes into contact with to "purify" them, Duvic later kills a young woman who curses him before dying. Returning from death as a savage werewolf, Duvic embraces his new form, rewriting his religion around his own savagery while roaming across the countryside, butchering all he comes across while sadistically torturing those of the clergy he finds wanting. Upon the Inquisitors tracking him, Duvic toys with them, slaughtering them as well while savoring their fear.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#200573: Feb 4th 2020 at 6:45:23 AM

[tup]Kaa.

Also, I created a page for Nightwatch (1994) (the one starring Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) a few months ago and its 1997 Foreign Remake starring Ewan McGregor has a CM; as of this moment they share the same page. Would it be possible to move the entry for that film to the ymmv page for the original?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#200574: Feb 4th 2020 at 6:57:07 AM

[tup] Live-Action Female Fanfic!Kaa.

~ACW: As I said before, most Tales villains are Anti Villains, and the Big Bad is usually no exception. Most Tales games have White and Gray Morality, or at worst Grey-and-Gray Morality. This does tie into the premise of Rousseau Was Right- that no one is truly evil, only misguided and/or hurt. Of course, there are exceptions in the series, hence the page. Though if you have a better pothole, I would not be opposed to it.

Edited by MasterN on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:57:36 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#200575: Feb 4th 2020 at 7:09:25 AM

[tup] to Kaa

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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