During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Zaza and Dancer. Also, I think I found another unapproved edit to an CM Entry. Specifically, SQUIP from Be More Chill. Here’s the entry on the Other Media page:
- Be More Chill: The SQUIP is a sociopathic, brainwashing supercomputer in pill form designed to make the user popular. The second he uploads himself into high school student Jeremy Heere, he is excessively cruel, making cracks at Jeremy's self-esteem and forcing him to repeat suicidal remarks the SQUIP makes about him. However, he advances beyond simple bullying when he attempts to have another student rape Jeremy via puppeting his body. From then on, he reveals that he desires to Take Over the World, and as he is rejected by Jeremy, in his last-ditch effort to achieve his goal, he offers up Jeremy's Love Interest as a mind-controlled slave.
And here’s the entry on Be More Chill’s YMMV page:
- Complete Monster: The SQUIP is a sociopathic, brainwashing supercomputer in pill form designed to make the user popular. The second it uploads itself into high school student Jeremy Heere, it is excessively cruel, making cracks at Jeremy's self-esteem and forcing him to repeat suicidal remarks it makes about him. It forces him to exercise far beyond his normal capacities, and offers scraps of affection only to further manipulate Jeremy. Then it blocks Michael from his line of vision by taking control of his optic nerve, persuading Jeremy to continue this and leave his best friend behind in pursuit of the better future the Squip promices. However, it advances beyond simple bullying and cruelty when it attempts to have another student rape Jeremy by puppeteering his body (additionally, she was far too drunk to consent herself). Not to mention if Jeremy displeases him in any way, if he does something so little as slouch, the SQUIP shocks him with electricity. From then on, it reveals that it desires to Take Over the World, and as it is rejected by Jeremy, it tortures him, forces his classmates and teacher to physically attack him and later Michael, puppets his body to the point that he has to strangle himself to be free of it just long enough to apologize, and finally, in its last-ditch effort to achieve his goal, it offers up Jeremy's Love Interest as a mind-controlled slave.
Just wanted to let you guys know.
I’m going to nominate the version of Dumbledore featured in the fanfic “Harry Potter: Junior Inquisitor”.
Unlike his canon counterpart, Dumbledore has no morals within this story. At the start of Harry’s fifth year, he starts by retracting his declaration about Voldemort's return to keep his influence during Harry's hearing and then snowballs From Bad to Worse. He then begins a long list of various evil deeds including: Manipulating Harry as a pawn to send him to his death, stealing from his Gringotts vault, sprouting "for the greater good" left and right, gaslighting his followers into yes-men convinced he can do no wrong, and so on. Worse, he puts potions in the food to control the entire student body and his good deeds were just to gain eternally indebted followers. He covered his follower's failures and misdeeds and played benefactor to Tonks and the Weasleys for blackmail and coercion material. It goes to such lengths that his evil eclipses that of Voldemort. He has Umbridge drugged to get her out of the way. He has Harry oblivated and brainwashed back into a oblivious obedient pawn when he tries to break free from his headmaster’s influence. He orders Snape to kill Harry's godmother by making it look like a Death Eater attack, just because she is a caring Parental Substitute. Much worse, Filch and Mrs Figg are in fact murderous squib extremists whom he helped evade justice. In addition, his loyal Fawkes was never a Phoenix but a magically transfigured Augurey, kept under his enslavement the whole time.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
First off, you generally need to use the effort post format. Second, no Ron the Death Eater allowed (unless it is something like RWBY: Dark, where the whole setting is turned on its head). Does this fic have a substantial plot, and is there a good reason for Dumbledore being evil? Or is this a demonization of Dumbledore, done for no reason other than the writer's hatred of the canon character? If so, that is Ron the Death Eater, and we throw those right out. As the Administrivia.Complete Monster page states:
- Related to [Defined Motives] is the occasional candidate from darkfics, creepypastas, and similar fan works whose objective is to take a canonical character and make them as awful as possible. Rarely is any logical or coherent reason given for this sudden turn to monstrous behavior, and as such, we tend to throw out those submissions. "Oh, look, Mario just exterminated everyone in the Mushroom Kingdom. Why? Who cares, it's shocking." No, thanks.
Anyway, I got a header for Monster.Tales Series:
- The Tales Series makes a point of having most villains be ultimately well-intentioned and/or sympathetic, but there are a select few who defy the trend by being pure evil.
So, what do you all think?
Edited by MasterN on Feb 3rd 2020 at 3:11:01 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.Hey guys, been super busy lately with work lately.
I am giving a late yes to crappy Dr. Doom, Anti-Monitor and the Cossack.
Yes to Otto Miramadon, Dancer and Zaza.
I fell behind on my Marvel and DC novels do to being busy, hope to pick them up again when I have free time.
Just reserved Picard and will be working with Lighty on it.
No to Dumbledore. Like MasterN said we don't allow those types here unless it's an AU or there is a reason for it narratively.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 3rd 2020 at 5:05:51 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadOh right my bad I thought he was proposing him. I guess I would be willing to see an EP.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Looks to me like that Venomous Seal IS proposing him, and simply is unaware of the effort post format. If so, I would like someone to link the EP format. Either way, your apprehension is completely understandable- I also think this looks like a case of Ron the Death Eater. Maybe it is not, but that is what an EP is for.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 3rd 2020 at 3:19:28 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.I think it takes a lot for me to accept a heroic character as a Complete Monster in fanfic and I am not even a big Harry Potter fan, but I just don't think that is how this trope should be applied to fan fiction.
I do wonder why most of the fan fiction examples we seem to get are a bit more, unconventional than more straight forward examples would be. Like both MLP and She-Ra are aimed at young girls, but I think we got a million MLP characters put forward from fan fiction, even something like Masters of the Universe is more likely to have Complete Monster than MLP is.
Anyway, I am not trying to discourage you VenomousSeal, we all have to start somewhere, but I think a more conventional villain in fan fiction may work better. But welcome to the thread, happy to have you.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 3rd 2020 at 3:56:18 AM
The only Ron the Death Eater CM I can think of is that one Goosebumps fanfiction
where the girl from The Curse of Camp Cold Lake is the bad guy.
We have some up. I mean I got up a version of Andre up. But usually it's either a AU or in service for the story/has a reason beyond I hate this one good guy.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 3rd 2020 at 6:37:58 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadYes to Zaza and Dancer, as well as the Tales header.
No to Dumbledore; Ron the Death Eater issues aside, I'm not sure he passes the baseline, let alone the standard set by Voldemort.
Nemetes, and I think there's at least one other example.
Edited by falcontalons on Feb 3rd 2020 at 5:09:27 AM
If I remember right the Invisible man from The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was a Token Evil Teammate, also I think that one of the Silent Hill characters is potholed with that trope.
I've wondered this literally for YEARS. The only reason I've ever been able to come up with is that they stick out in people's minds more than the appropriate ones. Especially with massive fandoms like Star Wars or Harry Potter where 80 percent of fanfic Voldemorts and Palpatines would probably qualify.
Edited by nrjxll on Feb 3rd 2020 at 7:29:14 AM
Can confirm. Have seen lots and lots of Homestuck High School A Us, and more than my fair share of Total Drama horror fics, plus Gems Are Unbreakable.
Edited by Critica7 on Feb 3rd 2020 at 5:38:36 AM
Check out my current fanfiction project.

Hey guys I just got home from my trip. I feel a lot better. Yes to Zaza and Dancer.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread