During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Abstain on Otto Rottermeyer.
for Miradomon though.
Otto and Miradomon
As for the Evil Albino dewicking, I checked the thread and think we should wait till Albinos Are Freaks, which merges it with Heroic Albino due to the social perception being the tropeworthy part, is launched to sort it out.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Feb 2nd 2020 at 7:12:35 AM
I reserved the sixth and final season of Better Call Saul for next year (so I'll indeed be covering the show for the rest of its run).
Gonna try to fish out some quotes for my approved candidates.
What's TRS?
Oh I see. I'd ask about why Evil Albino needs to be de-wicked, but it's not important right now.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 2nd 2020 at 8:24:42 AM
Miradomon.
By the way, I propose a rewrite for "The Back Alley" (which is listed on Anime & Manga: A to F) now that I discovered Junji Ito Kyoufu Manga Collection contained the chapter. From How to Write an Example, the title of the chapter should be in "quotes":
- Junji Ito Kyoufu Manga Collection: Shinobu Uchiyama, from "The Back Alley", is a fourteen-year-old sociopath and the one responsible for a series of murders that happened in the alley behind her mother's boarding house. Ever since she was a little girl, she was violently territorial towards the alley and murdered three little children who decided to play there one day. After her father fenced it off, Shinobu grew fond of using the alley as a killing ground, and as she grew older, she lured two classmates that she hated over and killed them, and eventually did the same to her own father before leaving taunting, vulgar graffiti celebrating their murders. The souls of her victims haunt the alley as vengeful ghosts who are permanently trapped due to not being able to climb out and attack Shinobu, who simply relishes in their suffering. When Ishida investigates the alley and tries to escape in order to call the police, Shinobu stabs him in the hand and causes him to fall, then smugly gloats about her crimes to a dying Ishida. Despite claiming that she has nothing against him, she giggles with glee once he succumbs to his wounds and casually tries to hide his body.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Feb 3rd 2020 at 6:12:15 PM
And here's the write-up for Jestor from the Tweeny Witches: The Adventures episode "The Secret of Dragon House". He should go after the Ice Witch.
- Jestor, from "The Secret of Dragon House", was the insane creator of the computer program to destroy the Witch Realm on the Day of Sleeping. Escaping years after his arrest for treason, he planned to exterminate the population of the Magical Realm half by half in revenge and to remind the entire world of his banished existence. Before dying, he made sure that no one could prevent the surprise attack on the Witch Realm even by destroying the computer.
- Jestor, from "The Secret of Dragon House", was the insane creator of the computer program to destroy the Witch Realm on the Day of Sleeping. Escaping years after his arrest for treason, he planned to exterminate the population of the Magical Realm—first the Witch Realm and then the Warlock Realm—as revenge and to remind the entire world of his banished existence. Before dying, he made sure that no one could prevent the surprise attack on the Witch Realm, not even by destroying the computer.
Barbie As Rapunzel
has Gothel (not related to Disney's Tangled) tagged as a Complete Monster. If the CM status was not approved, I think we should remove it, if it was approved, we definitely should rewrite it:
"Gothel not only kidnapped Rapunzel as a baby and put the girl to work as a servant in an isolated manor, she did so out of nothing but spite for Rapunzel's family, which also set off a pointless decades-long feud between two kingdoms."
Edited by HighfalutinQuelea on Feb 3rd 2020 at 3:31:13 AM
I've cut her.
In fact, I've also, to my surprise, found a much more heinous Barbie character
(she killed the king, the queen and attempted to kill their 1-year old daughter in an "accident". The daughter only survived thanks to Infant Immortality. She orchestrated all of this because Queen Isabella didn't pick her up as lady royal), who's unlikely to count as she seems to care about her daughter (unless she just wants to turn her into a puppet queen).
I'll try to watch it Wednesday to see whether or not she counts. But for a standard as low as Barbie's, she looks promising.
EDIT : Elfen just told me that he watched the movie and that she never particularly struck out as CM stuff in his eyes. I'm a bit pessimistic on that.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Feb 3rd 2020 at 1:48:09 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Some rewrites (I've gotten Lighty's and Mir's permission):
- Conspiracy in Death: Dr. Michael Waverly, the head of the AMA (American Medical Association), murdered one of his fellow doctors to ensure that his lifesaving organ transplant system for the poor could not be implemented. Viewing himself as a god, Waverly experiments on the homeless for his new organ repair research before killing them by cutting out said organ; in one case, the woman was butchered to the point of bleeding to death. When the police begin to investigate, Waverly threatens the lives of the pregnant wife and five-year-old son of one of the policemen, and when Eve is sent to investigate, arranges to have her mentally destroyed by framing her for the murder of a rival of hers, who he killed by breaking every single bone in the victim's body. When Eve gets close to the truth, Waverly starts to kill off anyone who could implicate him, including planning to off the wife of one of his friends before declaring his intent to take over the organ transplant system and allow him to purge the world of the poor and downtrodden, who he views as "scum".
- New York to Dallas: Isaac McQueen, aka the Collector, is a pedophile responsible for the torture—including tattooing a heart with each victim's number on each victim's chest—and rape of over 25 girls and teenagers ages 12 to 15—his "bad girls"—as well as the possible murder of 4 of them, in New York alone, and the torture, rape, and possible selling of others prior. McQueen also works with older women—"Mommy" figures, similar to his own abusive mom who was his first partner and who he killed when he was 19—seducing them and slashing their throat with a knife when they are of no more value to him. Escaping from prison, McQueen murders a medic and later assaults and rapes a woman as well to get Eve's attention, wanting revenge on her for putting him away a dozen years prior. Teaming up with Eve's mother, McQueen kidnaps a young teenager named Darlie Morgansten, raping her and forcing her to scream for Eve's help; he then murders Eve's mother—who didn't recognize Eve—for getting caught. McQueen later attacks Eve, planning to rape and kill her.
- Thankless in Death: Jerald "Jerry" Reinhold snaps one day and brutally kills both his parents when they threaten to kick him out of their apartment. Jerry next kills his ex-girlfriend, and then tortures and kills a former teacher—after injuring her dog. Jerry makes a "Shit List" of anyone who he views to have even slightly offended him, intending to subject them to torture, rape and gruesome murders. He plans to eventually rent out his murder talents for any paying customers after he's finished his "Shit List". Jerry next brutally tortures and tries to kill his best friend. A complete egotist who refuses to accept any responsibility for anything he's done, Jerry is completely happy to bask in the wave of attention his murders receive.
Edited by ACW on Feb 3rd 2020 at 2:38:31 PM
Okay, so no joke, I was checking out something on my To-Do List when I found this image
. That cannot be a coincidence.
Wild Knights Gulkeeva (or Juusenshi Gulkeeva, or Beast Warriors Gulkeeva) is another one of those Humongous Mecha animes that can out back in the mid-90s. It only came out in Japan, but I found out years ago that someone added subtitles to the series, so I was able to watch it. And apparently, the same source is still online. Anyway, the anime takes place in Shinjuku, where teenagers Touya, Kira, and Konoha are hanging out together like they would any normal day. Suddenly, a giant robot from a different dimension shows up and starts wrecking the city. Just as all hell is breaking loose, Touya and his friend encounter Greyfus, Beakwood, and Garriel (and later Tedium), four Animanoid (Animaloid?) warriors from the distant kingdom of Athaelia who have come to Earth to beckon Knight Radias. When Touya rushes back home, he finds out that he is Radias, and that he's The Chosen One destined to save the world from the Darknoids, a long-time enemy of the Athaelians. As you can expect, Touya ends up joining the Animanoid warriors in their quest to stop the Darknoids.
Lots of explosions, robot bashing, Character Development, and a disturbing amount of violence and death for an anime based off a shonen ensue.
All that being said, got two candidates to chat about here. Let's get the obvious one out the way first.
Who Is He?
Prince Zaza (or Zasa) is the ruler of Norsetia and the leader of the Darknoids. He's trying to complete the Grand Transmutation, a dark spell that'll give him immense power and destroy the world in the process by sucking all the energy from it and transferring it to Athaelia.
What Does He Do?
In order to complete the Transmutation, the Darknoids need to find and release Bouethers scattered across the world. Under the orders of Dorayoma, Darknoid warriors Daratium (and later Lemu/Lem, and Yun/Yuri) are sent to Shinjuku, Shibuya, and other sections of Japan to find the Bouethers. Various towns and districts are sacked by the Darknoids' attacks, and by the end of the tenth episode, the Darknoids have successfully uncovered all the Bouethers. With his newfound power, Zaza is able to create two wormholes across the globe. After Queen Millennia—the ruler of Fintayenia, the country Norsetia is fighting against in a war—tries (and fails) to convince Zaza to stop what he's doing (since it'll destroy Earth), Zaza uses his new powers to transport the floating Darknoid fortress from Athaelia to Earth. More chaos ensues as the Darknoids attack more cities and fend off the military. While Zaza slowly continues to gain power, he leaves Giru (Gil) in charge of the Darknoids. Knowing Touya, Kira, and the Animanoids are mowing down their forces, Giru puts a bounty on their heads, and several Darknoid mercenaries are sent to kill the protagonists. They all fail, albeit they succeed in destroying a hospital, tearing up more of Japan, and one rogue Darknoid nearly blows up the entire planet (I will be talking about this guy later).
It isn't until the twenty-first episode where Prince Zaza shows up again. Queen Millennia's forces finally find his hiding spot and corner him. Zaza, now riddled with power, obliterates all the Fintayenian soldiers with ease. In the next episode, the Fintayenian forces surround Zaza again, with Millennia herself appearing to try and get Zaza to surrender. Millennia tries to show Zaza that what he's doing is wrong and that he'll destroy the whole world, but he shrugs it off, and then attacks Millennia and kills most of her soldiers. Zaza now only needs the power of a Legendary Knight to finish his transformation. After Touya Took a Level in Dumbass and charged into the floating fortress by himself, Zaza beats Touya with little effort and starts draining all life from Earth as the Grand Transmutation starts.
The protagonists (sans Kira—I'm not gonna get into what happened there
) finally come face to face with Prince Zaza in his powerful form. As if the writers took a card from Final Fantasy, Zaza goes full One-Winged Angel and transforms into the devil. Still, even in his giant shadowy form, Zaza is struck down by Touya with the help of powers granted to him, and the day is saved.
Except no.
Turns out Zaza's spirit is still alive and now occupying Athaelia. The series ends with Touya and the Animanoids saying goodbye to their friends and family as they head to Athaelia to finish off Zaza for good. Due to insufficient funds, the anime didn't get a second season.
FUCK MY FUCKING ASS. :D
Mitigating Factors?
He's got no loved ones or friends, so scrap that immediately. His closest advisor, Dorayoma, was absolutely nothing but loyal to him. The second Zaza uncovers all the Bouethers, he basically tells him "k thanx. I'm gonna take over and replace you. Bye!" And then Dorayoma dies (but comes back; long story) in the next episode, and Zaza doesn't care.
Now, Prince Zaza claims that he's doing this to save Athaelia. Believe it or not, he's not lying; Athaelia is currently going through some kind of ice age, on top of being sullied by the Norsetians (Darknoids) and Fintayenians (Humans and Animanoids) constantly fighting each other. Queen Millennia and the Fintayenians live under a peaceful philosophy, whereas Prince Zaza and the Darknoids strive to follow more aggressive, violent tactics. Thing is, Prince Zaza knows that what he's doing will destroy all of planet Earth and kill billions. He couldn't care less. What prevents him from being a Well-Intentioned Extremist is that first of all, Zaza does not try to find any other non-lethal means to save Athaelia, even when Millennia personally calls him and begs to find a better solution. Another issue with Zaza is that he's perfectly okay with massacring any Athaelians who disagree with his tactics, despite claiming he cares about its people so much. None of this is helped by the fact that when Zaza gains all of his power, he straight up turns into Satan.
Zaza's logic is that he's doing something to save Athaelia; Queen Millennia is doing nothing. Therefore, he's right. And while he does raise a good point, it's made clear that Zaza is using this as an excuse to destroy Earth and nothing more. His logic isn't "I have to save my home planet by any means necessary, even if it means destroying another one." His logic is "I'm gonna destroy another planet to preserve my own so I'll be able to rule over it. Anyone who doesn't wanna join me can die." This type of logic, combined with the fact that he doesn't care about any of the Athaelians—including his own Darknoids—makes it hard to believe he's trying to save his home planet through good intentions. And, again, the whole "I'M SATAN NOW!" thing happens. So yeah. This line right here, just moments before he attacks and nearly kills Queen Millennia, more or less ruins any possible mitigating factors he has.
- Prince Zaza: "If you love our Earthly Eminence's natural order so much, then you can die along with it!"
Heinous Standard Issues?
Big Bad, tries to destroy an entire planet, is responsible for thousands of deaths, turns into Satan...yeah. I don't think I need to say much here.
Final Verdict?
Unless anyone has problems with his Freudian Excuse, easy keeper.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Feb 3rd 2020 at 11:18:00 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.The Freudian Excuse DOES give me pause, but seems he's more worried about HIS planet dying than about his PLANET dying, so I'll lean yes.
Going to agree with ACW here.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)BTW, soon (a few weeks? months?) we'll be heading back to Bacio and our favorite Love Freak. I've been told to look forward to what else she gets up to
So far, she's one of I believe only two Neverkind CMs who's a Karma Houdini, along with Vladik.
Edited by ACW on Feb 3rd 2020 at 11:41:02 AM
@ACW: That's my biggest problem with Zaza. His mindset is basically "What I'm doing is wrong, but I don't care as long as I can restore my planet. If you don't agree with me, I'll just kill you."
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

Well, I found other potholes
that work (well, for Western Animation and the franchise subpages anyway).