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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200301: Feb 1st 2020 at 10:49:29 AM

[up] To answer your question, Peter Pan.

Also, for Daredevil, should we put Mister Fear and Copperhead first, since they actually appeared before Bullseye, or nah?

Though, honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to giving Bullsye his own entry like, say, Nitro.

Edited by ACW on Feb 1st 2020 at 1:50:51 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200302: Feb 1st 2020 at 10:52:54 AM

Not once but twice

No bullseye is Daredevils Arch-Enemy. It would be wrong. Like taking Norman osborn out of the spiderman page. I wouldn't mind moving them to the top thought since all entries are arranged by order of first appearance.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 1st 2020 at 10:56:54 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200303: Feb 1st 2020 at 10:58:44 AM

[tup] to Lavoe, Soulcollector, Daib and Bishop

[tup] to the Fenrir Greyback quote.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#200304: Feb 1st 2020 at 10:58:57 AM

IIRC, Pinocchio got portrayed as a CM once.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200305: Feb 1st 2020 at 11:00:19 AM

It's tricky, because Bullseye is an Arch-Enemy (along with Kingpin), but he doesn't appear first.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200306: Feb 1st 2020 at 11:42:54 AM

And speaking of Daredevil, from the April 1985 issue ("The Sight Stealer"), "The Cossack". Thanks to Overlord for pointing this dude out to me.

He is first shown trying to kill a blinded Black Widow by throwing her out a window, but she is saved by Daredevil. She tells DD that the Cossack is a former intelligence agent to betrayed his superiors and became freelance.

He managed to get his hands on a defector's weapon, which blinds people.

He demands $15 million in gems or "death will rain down on foolish New York tonight". When the mayor refuses, Natasha thinks Cossack will take the refusal as a personal insult; she thinks he'll commit his crime anyway, as while he's "not exactly a madman...but...not exactly sane, either."

Now, his scheme: Use a radar to amplify the device: "At this moment, there are perhaps 250 airplanes over city. As soon as radar wave strikes...everyone inside is blind...also...air traffic controllers. Result? Many crashes. Many deaths. Tomorrow, they beg to pay us 15 million."

Daredevil manages to find and stop Cossack and his men, right before they can "make many crashes."

HEINOUSNESS?

You know, for a 1-shot villain, he's rather nasty. Let's say 100 people per plane, that'd be 25,000 dead, plus who knows how many on the ground. Not too many villains outside the big Marvel ones get that many. Especially for the street-level that Daredevil is on.

DISQUALIFIERS?

He tells his men to wear headgear so they don't also get blinded, but this seems Pragmatic Villainy: No sense getting your own men killed (especially as they tested the device before Cossack was gonna actually use it to cause the crashes).

Nothing seems to indicate he's TOO crazy to count.

CONCLUSION

I say keeper myself.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#200308: Feb 1st 2020 at 11:55:49 AM

[tup] Cossack

  • Key of Z, by Claudio Sanchez & Chondra Echert: Yankee Lavoe is the selfish ruler of the Bronx after the zombie apocalypse. Seeking to become ruler of New York, Lavoe murders the leader of New York, Atwater, and blows up his apartment, which also kills Nick Ewing’s wife and son. Finding a map to an armory after torturing Nick, Lavoe imprisons Nick and sets out to wage war against the entire city. Caught in a gang war with Jackson Met, Lavoe shoots one of his men to bait some zombies and tries to kill Nick and Eddie for making a getaway.

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#200310: Feb 1st 2020 at 12:08:01 PM

Yes there ACW and I think the RWBY: Grimm Eclipse needs a face lift so here's what I've got.

Current:

  • RWBY: Grimm Eclipse: Dr. Merlot was an old pupil of Ozpin with an unhealthy obsession with Grimm. Moving to Mt. Glenn and founding Merlot Industries, Merlot began to experiment on Grimm, but ran out due to the species' short lifespan in captivity. To work around this, Merlot had his research team attract a bunch of Grimm to the city, which resulted in it being overrun and the people being slaughtered. Surviving the attack and seeing the collapse of Glenn as "a speed bump on the scientific highway of progress", Merlot continued his experiments on a remote island. Succeeding in making a stronger variety of Grimm, Merlot released them into the Emerald Forest and Forever Fall to attack who they pleased. He also booby-trapped the ruins below Mt. Glenn with a bomb to keep people from finding his ships. When Team RWBY investigates his hacking of the security network in the Emerald Forest and accidentally ends up on his island, he reveals himself and taunts the girls, asking to "test" them before sending an army of Grimm to kill them. When the team makes it to his lair, he gleefully sends his security robots to kill them. However, when the team successfully hacks into his system and gains access to his secret labs, an enraged Merlot began to send his Grimm and robots at them with more viciousness, culminating in him sending a mutated deathstalker to kill them. When the creature falls, Merlot self-destructs his lab with himself and Team RWBY still inside.

Mine:

  • RWBY: Grimm Eclipse: Dr. Merlot is a Grimm-obsessed scientist who founds Merlot Industries to conduct experiments on them, seeking to attract more when he ran out of subjects and having the Grimm attracted to a nearby city to work around his problem, resulting in the population being overrun and slaughtered. Moving to a remote island, Merlot creates a stronger version of the Grimm, which he released into nearby areas where they may attack and kill as they please. Attempting to kill off Team RWBY when they come to investigate his island, when they defeat his ultimate creation Merlot sets his laboratory self-destruct with all of them inside out of spite.

Thoughts?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200311: Feb 1st 2020 at 12:16:04 PM

[tup]Cossack

Merlot looks good.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#200312: Feb 1st 2020 at 12:27:15 PM

[tup] The Cossack

[tup] Prince Balekin Greenbriar

Watch me destroying my country
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200313: Feb 1st 2020 at 12:57:12 PM

And a nice job, 43!

Now my last before writeups...From Baltimore? I give you Judge Duvic:

Who is Judge Andre Duvic?

Andre Duvic was an orphan raised by the Catholic Church. Taken under the wing of a priest who taught him of purity and not to associate with those of darkness as it would lead to darkness infecting him, with masochistic purging of evil within him...and then came the plague. The inquisition was restarted, with Duvic becoming a judge there...even killing his mentor when the man was taken by vampirism.

Unfortunately, Duvic was a man who neither compromised nor showed mercy. Any sin was to be expunged and destroyed. Soon Baltimore becomes known to the Church and because of his tendency to pursue Haigus and the vampires...Well, he becomes associated with outbreaks of plague and mass slaughter, so the Inquisition begins thinking there's more to him. Duvic hunts Baltimore down and soon reveals there's more darkness in him than he likes others to know: Duvic is a sadist who tortures those he encounters who have known Baltimore. To death to 'purify' them, men, women and children alike who are brutalized to redeem them until they die, with Duvic wracking up a huge bodycount.

During one such endeavor, Duvic arrests a friend of Baltimore, one Simon Hodge, and makes clear his intent to torture him when he reveals his backstory. A young woman, a relative of one of Duvic's victim, arrives against Duvic, and he callously stabs her through the heart without another glance, but before dying, she lays a hand on Duvic and seemingly curses him.

Duvic later tracks down Baltimore during the Infernal Train arc, leading to a bloody showdown that ends as Duvic is seemingly slain...but the curse? Changes him into a werewolf and he butchers the Inquisition who come to find him. After this, Duvic embraces his savagery, deciding that it is his true path and calling and decides to test the faith of others to see if they can become monsters like him. Duvic travels and becomes a greater scourge than any other monster save Haigus, massacring people in enormous quantities...while torturing and killing members of the clergy for pleasure, and to see if their faith is strong as his own. A team of Inquisitors is assembled to put him down, following a trail of horrific murder along the way, where they hunt him to a seaside castle.

Duvic lures them in and proceeds to slowly stalk them, murdering them one by one while savoring their fear until only a young Inquisitor named Rigo remains, hunted by the Wolf to the chapel of the castle...where Duvic reveals his intent and his newfound beliefs: that god has 'blessed' him with the form of the wolf and how he is 'purging' the flock, with Rigo realizing that the curse hasn't made Duvic into a monster this evil was always inside him, waiting to be unleashed. Duvic attempts to kill rigo for rejecting him, but Rigo manages to impale his neck with a cross....just as the light shines in through a stained glass window, through an image of the cross to blind Duvic....and the tower collapses with a mortally wounded Duvic crushed by rubble and falling into the sea.

Mitigating Qualities?

Duvic is a fascinating villain to say the least. In heinousness? Duvic has no connection to the Red King, and no magic, so his massive body count and torture sticks out. He's easily past that realm...but in terms of mitigating qualities, Duvic is a profoundly complex Knight Templar at first, who cared for his adoptive father, who believes he does god's will...however, it's made clear that Duvic always has a spark of evil in him, one he represses under righteous fury.

Then he's turned into the Wolf and Duvic just stops pretending. He becomes a savage brute, who isn't just killing for revenge or anger. No, he wnts to find those like him and gloats he tortures and kills those who he finds 'wanting,' while slaughtering all in his path, rebuilding his religion to be about him and his monstrosity. By the end, Duvic abandons anything good to become another monster, gleefully calling himself "The Wolf" by there.

conclusion?

I'd say a yes to The Wolf, Judge Andre Duvic.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200314: Feb 1st 2020 at 12:59:24 PM

[tup]Duvic

Though Werewolf transformation doesn't mess with their agency in this series does it ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200316: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:00:08 PM

Oh, tha's discussed. No, unlike vampirism, becoming a werewolf simply allows Duvic to embrace the monstrous nature that was always there.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200317: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:01:30 PM

Ah thought as much. Was just wondering as he just ditches all pretences of being well intentioned after his transformation.

Sounds like he just decided to embrace his inner darkness.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 1st 2020 at 1:02:11 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200318: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:02:06 PM

Yes to Duvic. Where will he go in the tree?

[up] Seemed to me more Knight Templar than WIE anyway.

Edited by ACW on Feb 1st 2020 at 4:05:04 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200319: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:04:15 PM

I said pretences of being well intentioned. Not that he actually was a wie. He sounds like just a creepy religious fanatic

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200321: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:10:27 PM

Actually, forget just where the Judge should go, I'm wondering if the whole tree needs re-ordering. If it's by prominence, Hitler should go last. If it's by appearance, Haigus should probably go before the Red King.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200322: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:13:18 PM

Also since hagius isn't the Big Bad but the red king. Could we remove that pothole from his entry.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200323: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:15:17 PM

Already taken care of that; it's a chained one anyway, so I'm just potholing his name to Vampire Monarch.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#200324: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:15:20 PM

Btw for the Baltimore stuff can we change the first line of Hitler's writeup from

"The nameless warlock, who is clearly Adolf Hitler, note ..."

to:

"The warlock who Adolf Hitler has become..."

I find notes in general very awkward and choppy on writeups, especially just to confirm trivia.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200325: Feb 1st 2020 at 1:16:36 PM

I could go either way; let's see what others think.


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