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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200226: Jan 31st 2020 at 9:47:25 AM

True, but OTOH there's scale. 40K takes place in space, while Criminal Minds is more (relatively) grounded. When it comes to genre though, Criminal Minds is easily the highest standard (though SVU isn't too far behind).

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#200227: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:06:12 AM

[tup] to GGG, Monkey Fist, and Hansel and Gretel.

Sorry for my absence, but I tallied up Drakulons votes.

For Drakulon: (4) Demon Duckof Doom, lukaSylvie, Cloiser The Stupid, captainmarkle

Against Drakulon: (4) Scraggle, Master N, Klavice, Miraculous,

Abstain: (6) Sky Cat 32, AWC, Mimic 45, The Mad Cr0w, Bullman, Falcontalons,

Drakulon seems to be split, but before I make any moves, I want to ask if anyone has a vote or opinion on him.

To see the EP, here is a link to the page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=7984

I have no idea what I am doing
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#200228: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:32:26 AM

[tup] Hansel & Gretel

What Is the Work?

Key of Z is a comic by Boom! Studios written by Chondra Echert & Claudio Sanchez.

So the zombie apocalypse has happened in New York in 2011, but survivors still exist and try their best to repair the Big Apple. Unfortunately, after the survivors decided to form warring factions against other parts of NY, it’s going to be a lot harder than expected. Enter our protagonist, Nick Ewing. He cares about one thing, and one thing only: revenge. Against whom, you may ask? Not the zombies, but a certain human who controls a good portion of New York’s citizens, and is the person we will be talking about today.

Who Is he?

Yankee Lavoe is the Spanish ruler of the Bronx, viewing himself as New York’s king while seeking to take the city for himself.

What has he done?

Located at the ruins of Yankee Stadium, Lavoe views his own people as ants, making sure to give his people false hope so that he can keep them under his thumb. He even has billboards and posters plastered everywhere describing how awesome he is.

So back in 2014, Lavoe was invited by the kindhearted, idealistic leader of New York, Atwater, in order to issue him a cease and desist for putting up an illegal toll on Randall’s Island, despite having signed something saying he wouldn’t. Giving no shits about Atwater’s complaints and agreeing that he’s a selfish prick, even claiming that he wants to be the ultimate ruler of New York. In fact, Lavoe had arranged the meeting to take place downtown so that he can force Atwater to watch his own apartment blow up (which also housed Nick’s wife and child), and once that was over, Lavoe’s men storm the room and gun down everybody, including Atwater.

“Amazing how many explosives a little toll money can buy, huh, Carlito?”

Nick heads to the ruin to find that Lavoe’s sent some of his men to scavenge whatever treasure/weapons they could from the apartment wreckage; Nick, after witnessing the charred remains of his wife and son, vows revenge on Lavoe. Years later, things happen, and Nick tries to frame Lavoe for the murder of faction leader Jackson Met’s brother. Taken to Lavoe as part of his gambit, Nick shows Lavoe the head of Jackson’s brother. Lavoe takes it out and plans to keep it for himself, having his men torture Nick for more info on where he got it. Finding out that he was the one who killed his family after going through Nick’s backpack, Lavoe has him locked up for being a traitor, a liar working for another faction. Finding a map to a military armory inside the backpack, Lavoe decides to toss Nick in “the hole”, steal a couple of tanks and uzis, and take New York by force. Oh, and he now prefers his minions to refer to him as “your majesty” from now on.

On the boat to the armory, Lavoe muses to his men that they’ll take as many firearms as they can carry, and if that means having to overthrow a “cabron overboard, so be it.” Right about to steal the weapons, in comes Jackson Met and his gang, hellbent on getting revenge for his deceased brother. Nick shows up, turns on some spotlights, and plays his harmonica, which is able to lure zombies to the gang war. Once the zombies are in position, Nick plays his harmonica harshly, the cacophonic music causing the zombies to turn violent and insane, attacking everybody there. During the chaos, Lavoe shoots one of his own men in the leg to be used as zombie bait, calling it “a small sacrifice for your ruler.”

After the battle’s over, Lavoe’s the only survivor, having killed Jackson Met as a human and a zombie. Seeing Nick and his teen sidekick Eddie Alvarez get away, Lavoe shoots Nick in the chest, and roundhouse kicks Eddie, taunting him for being useless. Nick grabs a machete and slices the back of Eddie’s tendons. Fallen over, and facing a gun-toting Eddie, Lavoe tries to persuade Eddie to become his new right hand man, telling him to make his older brother Guillermo proud. Eddie hates Guillermo and tries to kill him, but Lavoe jumps up and tries to strangle Eddie to death, but thankfully he’s interrupted by Nick impaling a machete through the bastard’s entire head.

Redeeming Qualities?

According to Eddie, he apparently had a good relationship with Eddie’s bro Guillermo, but it’s offscreen, and even then, it’s heavily implied that the relationship was only because Guillermo was just as bad as Lavoe. We never see him talk fondly about Guillermo. He also had a bit of respect for Jackson Met, even seeing him as better than himself, but that all ended once Jackson became an easily killable zombie. “Always though you were better than me, Jackson. Shame you got no brains left to see how wrong you were,” He says as he pulls the trigger. Then again, he wasn't afraid to kill him as a human, so it doesn't really matter much anyways.

Heinousness?

Only real villain, so he passes. Everybody else has redeeming qualities, and isn't nearly as bad as him.

Conclusion

Not the evilest guy I proposed, but in this setting, I say why not.

It's Spooky Month!
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#200229: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:33:37 AM

Having just read "Hospitality" the other night? Yes to Hansel and Gretel. Easily. Now I've got a new candidate. My first musical candidate, not counting my Josef Mengele blunder.

What's the work?

Bloodbath is the first band that got me into Death Metal. This song is off their first full-length album, Resurrection Through Carnage, titled "The Soulcollector", which ... seems to be about an entity that steals people's souls in their sleep (sound familiar?)

Who is the Soulcollector? What has he done?

It's kinda vague exactly who or what the Soulcollector is, and the lyrics might be a bit word salady (seriously, the fuck does "I feed upon their dreams and then reverse them to the face" mean?), but from what I can gather, he's a demonic being who lures his victims to his world in their dreams and leaves their bodies as dead husks while he tortures their souls in dreamland ("I will bring you torture everlasting/Unleash my hate upon you"), with the implication that he feeds on them. He doesn't take well to being shut out, either, and might even hold it against his victims in his next effort to capture them ("the pain that you bring me when you lock me out/it will be remembered till we meet again).

Mitigating factors?

He may have some vague agency issues, given that he's (apparently) an otherworldly entity, but otherwise, no. He's fully aware of what he's doing and seems to comprehend hate and suffering. Also of note: this album doesn't have any overly gory torture porn-style lyrics that, say, Cannibal Corpse does.

Heinous standard?

Besides "Like Fire" and "Cry My Name" (whose protagonists also might count), this is the only one with a clear narrative, so ...

Verdict?

I say keep.

Edited by Stellarvore on Jan 31st 2020 at 12:38:05 PM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#200230: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:41:21 AM

Yes to Lavoe and the Soulcollector.

[down]IIRC, he was cut back in 2016 because he developed standards against harming children.

Edited by falcontalons on Jan 31st 2020 at 10:43:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200231: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:42:30 AM

[tup]lvoe

I think we had another version of Hansel up once. Dunno what happened to him

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#200232: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:45:45 AM

[up] Yeah, from the Fables comic series.

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200233: Jan 31st 2020 at 10:48:23 AM

Oh yeah what did happen to him. Only sprat and piper as well as crooked man from the game are now up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200234: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:12:27 AM

[up] Here.

Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2020 at 2:14:50 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200235: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:15:39 AM

Ah Tbh it's not even the most out their last minute redeeming quality we've had. [lol]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#200236: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:19:41 AM

[tup]Lavoe.

Why so serious?
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#200237: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:35:47 AM

Yes to Hansel and Gretel.

So like, what differentiates a creepypasta from simply an internet horror story?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200238: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:45:59 AM

Yea to Levoe and Stell's there.

I've got just two more before writeups...one?

What's the Work?

Who Fears Death is an African fantasy set in a post-apocalyptic or alternate reality written by Nnedi Okorafor. The heroine is Onyesonwu Ubaid-Ogundimu, an Ewu, the product of rape between a man of the Nuru tribe and her Okeke mother....becoming a talented sorceress, Onyensonwu, whose name means "Who Fears Death" is visited within dark dreams by her sorcerous father, General Daib, who means to destroy her. Setting out to stop him, she falls in love and learns about herself and the world...

Who is General Daib?

An older, terrifying man, a sorcerer and Eshu (an animal shapeshifter), Daib is a vicious general who means to exterminate the darker-skinned Nuru tribe and others...the true ruler of the Okeke, Daib is the father on Onyesonmu...see, lineage through the father is very important in Nuru culture. Daib? Starts a campaign of Rape, Pillage, and Burn, especially rape...hoping to impregnate as many Nuru women as possible so the children aare seen as Okeke, depriving the Nuru of their own culture and lineage. Daib raped Oneywonsu's mother, and allowed his men to do the same, letting her live only for that reason (something he didn't usually do. He had a habit of murdering his rape victims).

When he discovers Onyewonsu magically, he tries to throttle her in her dreams with the two growing to loathe one another more as Onyewonsu travels into the lands of the Okeke, Durfur...Daib's atrocities? Ethnic cleansing and genocide, leading militias to slaughter women and children, carving them apart with machetes and keeping the Ewu they take as child soldiers, including his student Mwita, who eventually becomes Onyesonwu's husband long after breaking from the Okeke militas.

Daib is only seen in full to the end, but...it's made abundantly clear. After having weaponized rape and all. Onyesonwu confronts Daib with her father who gloats bout his role in the genocide, proclaiming that he was so disappointed he has Onyesonwu instead of a son, but when he kills her, he plans to track down her mother, rape her again and try for a boy. A furious Onyesonwu engages him in a battle as Daib tries to kill her and Mwita. Mwita is mortally wounded, but Daib is spiritually, magically and physically crippled. With her magic, Onyesonwu ends up killing most of the men of the region, and Daib escapes death, but is left broken and crippled, shattered...Onyesonwu doesn't pursue him, knowing his power is broken, and his time is ending...it's only a matter of time until he's overthrown and he pays with his life, but she has no need to kill him herself.

Mitigating Qualities?

While the genocide had been going on before and the cycle of violence is a thing...Daib is the worst in the novel. He ramps up the pogroms and goes with the whole "rape as a weapon" idea. Daib is built up a lot and ends up as a petty, tinpot dictator more than the embodiment of evil (which is the point), but...yeah, on crimes? Child soldiers, genocide, mass murder, weaponizing rape, attempted filicide.

And more than that? Mwita reveals Daib films himself murdering people to grow aroused to it. He's even proud of it. No, nothing good here, not whatsoever and he's the worst by far even fatoring in Onyesonwu's most antiheroic actions.

Conclusion?

A hard yes for Daib,

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#200239: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:49:02 AM

[tup]Daib.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200240: Jan 31st 2020 at 11:52:52 AM

[tup]Daib

Weaponised rape and impregnation. That is something.....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200241: Jan 31st 2020 at 12:00:58 PM

[tup] Lavoe, Soulcollector, Daib.

[up] Truth in Television.

BTW, can someone confirm or deny if the 1990-1991 Flash series is part of the Arrowverse or not? Judging by the Arrowverse page, it's part of the same multiverse, but not the same universe.

Then again, this has it as part of the same continuity.

So, keep on the Arrowverse page, or nah?

Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2020 at 3:03:22 PM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200243: Jan 31st 2020 at 12:04:32 PM

I'd say no. DC TV from like over a decade ago? Nah, more an easter egg

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#200244: Jan 31st 2020 at 12:04:45 PM

[tup] Daib

[tup] Soul Collector

[tup]Yankee Lavoe

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200245: Jan 31st 2020 at 12:05:20 PM

Works for me. So that needs to go to the main TV page, while the Black Lightning stuff DOES need to go to the Arrowverse page.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#200246: Jan 31st 2020 at 1:01:24 PM

[tup] to Lavoe, the Soulcollector and Daib.

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#200247: Jan 31st 2020 at 1:21:00 PM

[tup] to Lavoe, Soulcollector, and Diab

I have no idea what I am doing
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#200248: Jan 31st 2020 at 1:23:23 PM

[tup] to Lavoe, Soultaker and Daib

[tdown] to Drakulon

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#200249: Jan 31st 2020 at 1:32:02 PM

[tup] to Yankee Lavoe, Soulcollector and General Daib.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#200250: Jan 31st 2020 at 1:54:52 PM

[tup] to Hansel, Gretel, Lavoe, Soulcollector and Daib


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