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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#200201: Jan 30th 2020 at 10:32:15 PM

Making a Bad Boss entry for Fouchet was easy, half of the stuff in the CM entry was directed at his own men.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200203: Jan 30th 2020 at 10:40:18 PM

You joke but they've already announced the fourth film. This has been the most successful film in the Franchise.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200204: Jan 30th 2020 at 10:48:37 PM

As we proceed to give you what you need!

Cue the next Bad Boys taking as much time as Kingdom Hearts 3...

At least it's an improvement. [lol]

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#200205: Jan 30th 2020 at 11:42:29 PM

@Drax

That...sounds like a perfectly okay question to me.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200206: Jan 31st 2020 at 12:32:13 AM

Agreed with Tyk. Bad Boys for Life is a VERY fun way to kill a few hours, but neither comes even CLOSE to counting. Hell, it could be argued they don't even meet the heinous standard. And even if they don't, there's Even Evil Has Loved Ones, plus Armando (who avoids killing innocents) has a Heel–Face Turn at the end, etc.

Lesson: Don't fuck a married witch, especially without a condom [lol]

Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2020 at 3:33:46 PM

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#200207: Jan 31st 2020 at 4:53:27 AM

they've already announced the fourth film
Sure, now that they can't use Bad Boys 4 Life....

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#200208: Jan 31st 2020 at 4:54:16 AM

[up] They can do Bad Boys 4Ever though. Here's hoping. wink

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#200209: Jan 31st 2020 at 4:54:21 AM

Bad boys 4 ever is still possible.

Edit : [nja]

Edited by miraculous on Jan 31st 2020 at 4:56:52 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#200210: Jan 31st 2020 at 7:09:53 AM

Got a quick candidate there :

What's the work?

Hospitality is a creepypasta written by AustinDR and is based on Hansel and Gretel's tale, again.

Again, Hansel and Gretel are wandering around a forest. Again, they find a house. Again, they are welcomed by a old woman who turns out to be a Wicked Witch.

Or not so wicked, actually. She isn't even our candidate.

Who are Hansel & Gretel? What have they done?

Oopsie. Silly me.

I forgot to mention that Hansel and Gretel are actually adults.

You see, Hansel and Gretel were actually, as 2Pac, Outlawz and Biggie would say, "runnin' from tha police". For good reason. Very good reason.

Hansel and Gretel are actually serial killers who killed old women in order to get their money. By the time the story starts, they killed 11 old women by cutting them to pieces, including their own grandmother. Nice people, huh?

Upon realizing that it's sundown, Hansel and Gretel wandered around, hoping to find some place to sleep and something to eat. On the meanwhile, Gretel is pondering whether or not she should kill her brother.

The siblings' efforts were rewarded upon noticing a small house in the middle of the forest, with a pie cooling on the windowsill. Hansel succumbs to his hunger and despite Gretel's protests, would have eaten it if it wasn't for an old woman stopping them. Turns out she's the house's sole inhabitant. Sadly for her, her golden necklace is a bit too beautiful for Gretel, who consequently plans, with her brother, to kill the unfortunate woman, take her necklace, any other interesting valuable, and escape.

At night, they promptly carry out their plan. Everything went according to the plan. However, after killing the woman, the siblings realizes that their already acquired riches are gone. Accusing Hansel of having hidden them, Gretel attempts to kill him, but Hansel defends himself quite well and is just as willing to kill his sister. Their fighting is only stopped upon noticing a door that wasn't there before. Wondering if their riches were there, they enter the room... Only to discover nothing but darkness. They can't go back either : the door vanished.

Turns out, the woman's necklace not only saved her from certain death, but also identified the sheer evil hidden inside the siblings. She promptly stole their bag, hoping that the more greedy Gretel would kill Hansel right then and here. However, the door was there as plan B, just in n case the siblings didn't end up killing each other. The woman reveals that while she went through Adaptational Heroism, she still is a Wicked Witch.

It's heavily implied that the witch killed Hansel and Gretel and used them to bake her cookies, before burying their remains.

When two kids implied to be the original Hansel and Gretel shows up, the witch, instead of killing them... Give them some cookies and the adult Hansel and Gretel's riches before letting them go.

Heinousness?

What the Wicked Witch did to them is nasty. But knowing that they are Asshole Victims and compared to their rapsheet, what they did, the Wicked Witch's deeds are outright cute. Hansel and Gretel are mere humans, from a poor family on top of that.

For their low resources, they easily meet the heinous standard on high-speed rail. Killing 11 women by hacking them in pieces easily makes them above the baseline.

Their first victim is their own grandmother, killing her in the middle of their usual mischievous acts. It's unclear whether or not they did kill her willingly, but fact is, instead of admitting responsibility, they chose to hack her corpse in pieces and feed it to the chickens. Their following victims, however? They killed them of their own free will. While their murders aren't individually detailed, their modus operandi is, and the police is after their asses after their killed their 11th victim. More than enough to avert Offscreen Villainy.

Redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

No redeeming qualities hold up. They don't even care for each other, and the only reason they remained together is because of their mutual enjoyment of killing and their similar goals. They behave towards each other more like murder buddies than siblings. When the witch steals their bag, they have no problem attempting to kill each other. No indication that they care about anyone else either.

They have a Freudian Excuse however. They kill wealthy old women partly because of their upbringing. Like the original Hansel & Gretel, they were born to to an impoverished shoemaker and wife. While they had no abusive stepmother like the original characters, both of their parents kicked the bucket, forcing them to take care of their frail grandmother. That would partly explain why they decided to get money the easy way.

And that would attract sympathy... If it wasn't for the fact that the canon Hansel & Gretel, who makes an appearance in the end, have similar issues with poverty, plus Parental Abandonment. They are cases of Children Are Innocent instead of killing for money, and their happy ending is as karmic as one would expect. Plus, Hansel & Gretel were already bad before they started killing, their hobbies including "pelting woodland animals with rocks or digging deep holes to trap them inside and leave them for dead".

Generic Doomsday Villain concerns?

None that holds up. Their personalities are distinct from each other, with Hansel being more impulsive, attempting to eat the pie the second he sees it, and quickly attempting to kill Gretel when she accuses him of stealing the bag. Gretel seems to be more level-headed, but is even more greedy, admiring the witch's necklace and immediately plotting to kill her as such, but also quickly losing her cool the second she knows their riches have been stolen.

Verdict?

Up to you guys.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 31st 2020 at 4:25:33 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200211: Jan 31st 2020 at 7:16:40 AM

Hello Adaptational Villainy.

Yes to those two. I could've sworn we had a CM version of Gretel at least already.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#200212: Jan 31st 2020 at 7:21:41 AM

[tup] To Hansel & Gretel.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#200213: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:10:20 AM

Based on the EP, [tup] to Hansel and Gretel. That's a weird statement I didn't think I'd ever make.

Gonna go out on a limb and guess that no one in Dolittle counts and that it's probably not even worth discussing (hell, I didn't see it). Well whoever conceived of the constipated dragon idea anyway. Haha.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 31st 2020 at 8:10:53 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#200214: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:11:01 AM

So just finished reading Hospitality.

...Eh.

I mean this at least didn't seem as barebones as the story where a guy went around killing people because Super OCD. Even though it's shorter. But at the same time, it's just Hansel & Gretel. Except their a Villain Protagonist adult duo now. And the Wicked Witch is friendly and had every right to cook them alive and turn them into cookies.

Um, yeah, there is a pattern to their murders. I guess. And there is evidence to show they've killed multiple people. I guess. It's not gratuitously gory, or disgusting, or tasteless, etc. So we can throw out the whole notion of down-voting them for that reason. I guess. It has a plot to it; it isn't just mindless violence and killing for the sake of violence. So there is that. I mean...the story follows all the rules we've set here. It's not like I have any justifiable reason to vote these guys down.

Soooooooooo [tup] Hansel & Gretel. I guess.

...I'm not sure what makes this a creepypasta though. It's just Hansel & Gretel. But they're evil now. :/

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#200215: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:13:37 AM

Whatever, another bare bones Creepypasta with 'just enough,' not sick of these or anything.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#200216: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:20:34 AM

I won't say much here because I can't...won't defend it vehemently and apologize if it didn't completely go by the rules despite its actual plot.

Edited by AustinDR on Jan 31st 2020 at 8:39:41 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#200218: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:50:37 AM

[tup] Hansel and Gretal.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#200219: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:51:32 AM

Also I don't actually consider it a Creepypasta necessarily. A short horror story, but it was mostly because I didn't really know where to post it.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#200222: Jan 31st 2020 at 8:58:59 AM

Oh, BTW, that In Death book I mentioned (Celebrity in Death)? Killer's an asshole, and would easily count on his own, but the standard's so jacked, that his 10 or so murders (plus one attempted) don't come close to bad enough for the series. I think I'll start calling it "Criminal Minds syndrome".

Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2020 at 11:59:55 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#200223: Jan 31st 2020 at 9:31:06 AM

[tup] Hansel and Gretel... A Rare Sentence there.

[up] proposing this thread make "Criminal Minds Syndrome" an official term for here, for if the heinous standard is so high it's ridiculous.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#200224: Jan 31st 2020 at 9:38:43 AM
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#200225: Jan 31st 2020 at 9:45:39 AM

Don't know if Criminal Minds standard is the most jacked up, considering that we have Warhammer 40k where villains, who commit genocides or want to do it, are a common occurrence.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jan 31st 2020 at 8:48:35 PM


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