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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#199951: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:20:01 PM

Hm, now that you put it that way, I'll [tup] Mobius. Flat, boring character for sure, but just enough there.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#199952: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:20:18 PM

[tup] to the Anti-Monitor

I guess unless there are any more votes on Vizsla he will be a not outright-rejected case, but one that is too divisive to list

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199953: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:20:33 PM

[tup]antimoniter.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#199954: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:21:50 PM

TBH, it's only his final moments that give me pause...I think you made good arguments, but it's hard for me to see it as just trying to salvage dignity.

Vizsla is treacherous and underhanded, but when pressed and challenged by Maul, he does adhere to honorable combat, while Obi-wan notably isn't a Mandalorian and they're not on Mandalore. I just think he has too little reason to truly adhere to the code unless he truly buys into it before Maul takes his head.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#199955: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:29:02 PM

Yeah, I think with Obi-Wan and Ahsoka it's a little different, as he and his kind hate the Jedi due to their history.

Maul on the other hand he sees as a Worthy Opponent.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#199956: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:33:08 PM

Though I ultimately disagree with Vizsla having honor/Worthy Opponent standards, I understand the thought process behind it and will simply say I appreciate everyone's input and for allowing the relitigation to take place given the newer arguments I had. smile

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Jan 28th 2020 at 12:33:17 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199957: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:36:17 PM

[tup] Anti-Monitor.

Do any of the current keepers have to go, or is Mobius so much higher a tier that it doesn't matter?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#199958: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:38:11 PM

Why would anyone have to go? The Anti-Monitor is basically the highest tier you can get in this verse. Every other villain is basically ants compared to him.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 28th 2020 at 2:42:09 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199959: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:41:47 PM

I figured as such. Just checking.

Edited by ACW on Jan 28th 2020 at 3:56:30 PM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#199961: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:08:30 PM

I just noticed we are on the brink of 8000 pages and 200,000 posts. That's mind blowing when you really think and assuredly makes some people here feel old.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#199962: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:08:33 PM

@ACW: Siegfried and Sieglinde appear in Wolves of War but do very little.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#199963: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:09:14 PM

ACW: I am sorry if that came off as rude. I didn't mean for it to. I'm just not having a good day.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 28th 2020 at 3:09:50 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199964: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:13:42 PM

[up] Nah, no worries.

[up][up] Got it.

[up][up][up] I AM old [lol] At 36, I think I'm wonder of the oldest ones here.

Edited by ACW on Jan 28th 2020 at 4:14:09 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#199965: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:24:23 PM

Jesus... I remember being on this thread as a naive, overly beligerent 18-year old. Now I'm 25, and mildly less beligerent and naive. Time flies.

[tup] to Anti-Monitor, to nobody's surprise he's easily surpassed the heinous standard.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#199966: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:41:50 PM

[tup] to the Anti-Monitor. And after much consideration, I'll go ahead and vote [tup] to Vizsla as well.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#199967: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:43:06 PM

[tup]Anti-Monitor.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199968: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:51:00 PM

Huh assuming lighty also down voted due to his post this would be the first Time ever We've had balanced votes.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199970: Jan 28th 2020 at 1:58:09 PM

[up][up] I feel like it's had to have happened before at least ONCE.

I'm not going back through all the previous ones to see though [lol]

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#199971: Jan 28th 2020 at 2:04:12 PM

[tup] to Anti Monitor

[tdown] To Vizla

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#199972: Jan 28th 2020 at 2:31:22 PM

Personally the reason I disagree with the thing against Viszla is the stuff mentioned age mentioned, about Maul specifically challenging him in front of his men, and Viszla looking at said men before actually accepting the challenge. Notheless it's still a fair argument too make.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#199973: Jan 28th 2020 at 2:35:59 PM

I don't think said men would've mutinied against him had he refused though, given how often they've seen him fight dirty.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#199974: Jan 28th 2020 at 2:51:26 PM

My thought process isn't that he was worried they would rebel, it's that they would see him as weak. There would be a difference between fighting Kenobi and ordering his soldiers to interfere, and straight up denying Maul a challenge to combat in front of his men and looking cowardly. Maul issued an official Mandalorian-style challenge to Vizsla, and Vizsla's explicit hesitation to accept, along with being shown to be a dirty fighter in settings where it wouldn't humiliate him to do so, are what makes me personally say Vizsla would not have been so Graceful Loser or even accepted Maul's challenge if his men were not all watching. The fact that Maul outright says "Vizsla is a soldier, and like all soldiers, he is bound by honor. I will challenge him in front of his men. He will not deny me." would imply to me that even Maul realizes Vizsla values how he appears before his men more than any sort of standard.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#199975: Jan 28th 2020 at 2:52:47 PM

[tup] Anti-Monitor. Been waiting for this one.

It's Spooky Month!

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