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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#199926: Jan 28th 2020 at 7:45:46 AM

I was going to have a EP today, but my computer crashed. So I had to redo the thing onto my phone and I have to get my computer fixed. I hopefully get done by tomorrow.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 28th 2020 at 9:48:05 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#199927: Jan 28th 2020 at 7:50:03 AM

[up][up][up][up] 90's Flash may not be part of the Arrowverse itself, but they still share the same multiverse. We had Supergirl (2015) as part of the page, even though it was set on a different earth.

I can see us adding the ones that had some role in the plot to some capacity (Smallville and Richard Donnor's Superman series), to the page.

The more complicated ones are if we are including the ones who were just quick cameos (like Batman (1989), or the DC Extended Universe).

Edited by Beast on Jan 28th 2020 at 9:50:39 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#199928: Jan 28th 2020 at 7:54:26 AM

Beast: Yeah that is why I will refer to miraculous and Lighty's judgement on the page reformatting.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 28th 2020 at 9:54:50 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#199929: Jan 28th 2020 at 8:05:17 AM

I'll give a slight yes for Vizsla.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#199930: Jan 28th 2020 at 8:22:53 AM

After reading about Jinmen and his versions here, this bit:

Operates under a human disguise under the name of "Mr. Death-Mask" he acts as a serial killer targeting human and demons including Illuge.

Made me want to check out his Grimoire version.

Before all that though, i propose an image of Jinmen from that manga: 1

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#199932: Jan 28th 2020 at 8:32:34 AM

[up]Oh, right, forgot about restrictions.

Anyway, trailer for Mortal Kombat Legends: Scorpion's Revenge is out, anyone has taken it?:

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199933: Jan 28th 2020 at 9:42:50 AM

@acw: Devilman dude. Devilman.

It's funny Jinmen is a pretty minor bad guy in the original manga all things considered but he's become one of the most iconic villains in the Franchise. Part of it might be the fact that among satan and his cohorts more sympathetic handlings, he's just sadistic and depraved.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 28th 2020 at 9:47:09 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199934: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:00:36 AM

He is minor? Huh. I'm not surprised he's relatively iconic; the mass And I Must Scream is rather memorable.

Incidentally, for In Death, there might be a couple more candidates: Mir's gonna look at one book eventually (though I have my doubts), and I'm currently reading a book (I also have my doubts), and then that should do it for the older ones. Though the new one comes out in a week or so, and then there'll be a new one in September.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199935: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:02:43 AM

In the original manga at least. He's more or less just a motw (Though easily the creepiest one in the series). Various contuitions and adaptations have bumped him up to a more major villain due to popularity.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#199936: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:08:09 AM

Hey, the same was true of the Shredder.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199937: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:12:21 AM

Didn't even Joker start off as a minor villain? I think Red Skull did too. Hell, this dude was Skull before Schmidt.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#199938: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:28:25 AM

Yeah stuff like that happens all the time when a villain becomes unexpectedly popular.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#199939: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:29:29 AM

Memoria Freese is going to have a Goblin Slayer crossover.note 

IPP Wick Check created.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199940: Jan 28th 2020 at 10:41:58 AM

Breakout Villain is a thing for a reason.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#199941: Jan 28th 2020 at 11:29:18 AM

Yes to Steve. Wasn't expecting Pre Vizsla to be so divisive.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199942: Jan 28th 2020 at 11:33:52 AM

13 upvotes and 13 downvotes.

Perfectly balanced as all things should be.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#199943: Jan 28th 2020 at 11:42:45 AM

The greatests sacrifice require the strongest wills.

[tup] Pre Vizsla.

And I forgot to [tup] Dracula too.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#199944: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:00:21 PM

Still not convinced on Viszla [tdown]

Also, yes, 1990 Flash is part of the Arrowverse, as well as Black Lightning, while the other cameos were just glorified cameos.

But I'll leave that discussion for Lighty.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 28th 2020 at 9:05:08 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#199945: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:05:18 PM

Alright, for Crisis...I give you a time when worlds died....let's talk Mobius. The Anti-Monitor.

Who is The Anti-Monitor?

A being of supreme power and evil on a quest to conquer the Multiverse...Mobius is the Evil Counterpart of the Monitor Mar Novu...now, Mar Novu in his younger days would traverse the Multiverse, and came upon the Netherverse, the realm of Anti-Matter where Mobius had been born...this revealed the existence of the Multiverse to Mobius who decided to conquer it, sweeping away worlds and entire universes with powerful waves of Anti-Matter to strengthen himself as he devoured the death therein. Mar Novu managed to seal Mobius away, where the Anti-Monitor prepared and plotted, building a cannon of anti-matter for the coming war..

He managed to manipulated Harrison Wells into freeing him by pretending to be Mar Novu. Now free? Mobius put his plan into action...sending out waves of Anti-Matter to consume entire universes. Countless parallel universes are obliterated, consumed and their deaths feed Mobius. Harrison Nash is spared by Mobius and forcibly turned into the being known as Pariah, damned to try to warn universes and earths of Mobius's coming with other heroes....and failing, watching each universe consumed by Mobius in turn.

The Anti-Monitor dispatches his forces, Shadow Demons, to slaughter the heroes, while summoning the heroine Harbinger, brainwashing her, revealing as he consumes more worlds, he is also draining the life of Mar Novu, sending Harbinger to murder Mar Novu....before attacking Earth-1 and consuming it with a wave of anti-matter. Nash manages to save the last heroes in time, known as the Paragons who can stop him...scoffing at this, the Anti-Monitor begins to reign over his new kingdom, with months passing with the Paragons missing.

The Paragons manage to fight back, particularly Oliver Queen who is now the hsot for the Spectre, the Wrath of God...and gives his life to restore the Multiverse....however the Anti-Monitor survives, albeit in a highly weakened state, and strikes back to destroy the new Universe for good.. The heroes develop a bomb capable of shrinking the Anti-Monitor to nothing in the Microverse, ending as Kara Zor-El uses it upon him to send him, trapped to the Microverse for eternity.

Heinousness?

Not a problem. He kills trillions beyond trillions, obliterating universe after universe. The Anti-Monitor sets this for destruction in the Arrowverse and it ain't even close.

Mitigating Qualities?

Anti-Matter is never said to mean 'evil' at all. Mobius is never given any issues with agency and he's calculating, cruel, scheming and has a personality even if he's utterly flat as a character. Beyond that? No, he's an omnicidal maniac out to replace the Multiverse with an anti-matter one to reign over it forever. Actually, one nasty moment for him, showing a cruel touch? To 'thank' Welles for freeing him, the Monitor turns him into Pariah, cursed to see the deaths of countless worlds and universes while powerless to stop it.

Conclusion?

Keeper. Easily.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#199946: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:08:53 PM

[tup] to the Anti-Monitor. I believe this is the 4th incarnation of him to qualify.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#199947: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:10:15 PM

Oh, I’ve been waiting for this. Easy [tup] to Anti Monitor.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#199949: Jan 28th 2020 at 12:11:06 PM

[tup] Anti Monitor.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life

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