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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#199776: Jan 27th 2020 at 7:30:49 AM

[tup]Tujiro

Considering how dark the work is (i know of it by reading Batman/Grendel crossovers), i assume no one else counts?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#199777: Jan 27th 2020 at 7:35:57 AM

Every other villain I know of flunks the standard or has redeeming qualities.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#199778: Jan 27th 2020 at 7:43:22 AM
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#199780: Jan 27th 2020 at 8:13:21 AM

You know, I was kinda considering watching that F-Zero anime to see if anybody kept. Looks like Scraggle beat me to it, lol.

Yes to Black Shadow

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#199781: Jan 27th 2020 at 8:21:43 AM

[tup] Wolkins, Harkon (just about) and Black Shadow. Same for Tujiro the Vampire Paedophile Pope.

Abstain on Riddles duo.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199782: Jan 27th 2020 at 9:02:06 AM

[up] The vampire pedophile pope headquartered in Colorado of all places.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#199783: Jan 27th 2020 at 9:02:40 AM

[tup] to Tujiro

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#199784: Jan 27th 2020 at 9:10:01 AM

Oh, also, [tdown] to the Riddles duo. Like I've said before, if a villain has to delude themselves into thinking whatever they do is justified, they don't qualify.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#199785: Jan 27th 2020 at 9:10:54 AM

Hey guys, nobody minds if I reserve the third and final season of Tangled the Series, right? Let’s just say, an certain villain could end up counting in the future. PM me if you like to discuss about this certain I’m talking about.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
SkyCat32 (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#199787: Jan 27th 2020 at 9:18:27 AM

[up][up][up] I believe Lord YAM expressed interest, please PM him.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 27th 2020 at 12:20:52 PM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#199789: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:09:58 AM

Not even sure where I stand with Harkon, because while what he did to his own family was outright horrible, I kind of find his grander scale villainy a bit lacking compared to the other big boys among the various Elder Scrolls villains. However, I can more confidently vote yes to Tujiro, Wolkins, and Black Shadow.

And on the topic of Pre Vizsla, I remember confidently feeling that he didn't count back when I was rewatching Clone Wars in order to effortpost Riff Tamson, but I am open for a more formal discussion. Funny thing though is that I personally don't think any good qualities hold up, it's the heinous standard I'm more concerned with since while he's done some outright terrible things, I'm not sure if they make him distinct enough to rub shoulders with our already listed candidates.

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#199790: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:20:13 AM

Yay to Tujiroh.

@ Critica, there are plenty of delusional monsters who think they're justified, such as Judge Frollo, Light Yagami, and Shou Tucker.

RIP KissAnime.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199791: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:28:46 AM

[tup]Tujiroh

Still one of the most evil vampire cms like ever even years from when he was approved.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 27th 2020 at 10:30:26 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199792: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:30:03 AM

Did these 2 get enough votes?

  • Messenger, by Edward Lee: Aldezhor (MetaBuu)
  • I Spy (film) trio (Mimic)

[down] What was Carolyn from again? (EDIT: Ah, right, CSI: NY).

Edited by ACW on Jan 27th 2020 at 1:32:42 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199793: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:30:35 AM

@acw: Btw could you tag Carloyn Williams ans Crom Cruach on the to do list so I don't forget to write them up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#199794: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:41:46 AM

[up][up][up][up] Perhaps...I still think it's reason to think twice about a candidate.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#199795: Jan 27th 2020 at 10:53:23 AM

Okay, after reading this entry:

In the novelizations of Fantastic Four (2005) & Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, by Peter David & Daniel Josephs respectively, Victor Von Doom is portrayed as nothing like his regular iterations, but rather a complete psychopath obsessed with hurting others and making himself a god. His entire motive stemming from a petty hatred of Reed Richards for not being as smart as him. Doom's sociopathic nature is first on display when he attempts to leave his own fiancée, Sue Storm, to die alongside Reed and others to save his own skin with nothing but cold apathy. After gaining metallic skin and electromagnetic abilities, Doom slowly loses his carefully built up affable persona, starting when he murders his doctor for trying to tell others of his "condition", and going further downhill after he murders a business partner for insulting him. By the end of the first novel, Doom's true personality of a narcissistic lunatic has come into full display, as he attempts to sadistically freeze Reed to death. In the second novel, Doom allies with Reed and rest of the Fantastic Four to stop the titular Silver Surfer, however it is quickly revealed that it was a ploy on Doom's part to steal the Surfer's power, which he immediately uses to gruesomely kill an army general and murder numerous soldiers. In the end, as Gah Lak Tus arrives and begins destroying the Earth, Doom, rather than stop Gah Lak Tus with his power, only laughs as countless innocents die and the world crumbles beneath him, proclaiming himself a god who no longer needs the Earth or anyone else, just himself.

I've got couple of questions: first, what makes this Doom different than the one from the movies, that the novelizations were based on?

Second, does this entry also looks kinda awkward? I mean, read it and notice how little is actually devoted to his actual crimes and more toward how petty and hateful he is. His actions from the novelization of the first movie is extremely bog standard btw.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#199796: Jan 27th 2020 at 11:16:23 AM

[up] Well, here's Ravok's EP for that version of Doom.

To quote him:

Now, much like in the films, Doom here is pretty much your average supervillain for most of the novels. He kills a handful of people, sadistically manipulates and tries to kill the heroes, with his main stand out crime being what he does to that general.

But....by the end of the second novel? Doom acknowledges that the Earth is being destroyed by Gah Lak Tus, and he could fight it to try to save the planet (As Surfer ends up doing)....and doesn't. Doom just LAUGHS as people die and the Earth crumbles around him, reveling in the destruction as it is destroying all ties to his former mortal life, and he seems to be planning to fly off into space and become a god over other planets, so yeah, not only actively allowing the Earth's destruction when knowing he could at least TRY to stop it, but taking such euphoric JOY in it flings him WAY over the line.

It's been ages since I saw those films, but it seems the big difference is that Doom doesn't care if the Earth is destroyed and is fine with leaving to conquer other worlds afterwards.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#199797: Jan 27th 2020 at 11:30:34 AM

[up]In any case the entry is clunky and should just focus on the second novel instead then. Most of it doesn't even describe Doom's crimes.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#199798: Jan 27th 2020 at 11:32:01 AM

That entry looks outdated. Last year I did a more condenced rewrite that should be on the Marvel literature page.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#199799: Jan 27th 2020 at 11:38:05 AM

Its from Doctor Doom YMMY section of his character page.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199800: Jan 27th 2020 at 11:44:06 AM

Ah must have not been updated. Could be fixed pretty easily.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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