During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh, also,
to the Riddles duo. Like I've said before, if a villain has to delude themselves into thinking whatever they do is justified, they don't qualify.
Not even sure where I stand with Harkon, because while what he did to his own family was outright horrible, I kind of find his grander scale villainy a bit lacking compared to the other big boys among the various Elder Scrolls villains. However, I can more confidently vote yes to Tujiro, Wolkins, and Black Shadow.
And on the topic of Pre Vizsla, I remember confidently feeling that he didn't count back when I was rewatching Clone Wars in order to effortpost Riff Tamson, but I am open for a more formal discussion. Funny thing though is that I personally don't think any good qualities hold up, it's the heinous standard I'm more concerned with since while he's done some outright terrible things, I'm not sure if they make him distinct enough to rub shoulders with our already listed candidates.
Did these 2 get enough votes?
- Messenger, by Edward Lee: Aldezhor (MetaBuu)
- I Spy (film) trio (Mimic)
What was Carolyn from again? (EDIT: Ah, right, CSI: NY).
Edited by ACW on Jan 27th 2020 at 1:32:42 PM
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Perhaps...I still think it's reason to think twice about a candidate.
Okay, after reading this entry:
I've got couple of questions: first, what makes this Doom different than the one from the movies, that the novelizations were based on?
Second, does this entry also looks kinda awkward? I mean, read it and notice how little is actually devoted to his actual crimes and more toward how petty and hateful he is. His actions from the novelization of the first movie is extremely bog standard btw.
Well, here's Ravok's EP
for that version of Doom.
To quote him:
But....by the end of the second novel? Doom acknowledges that the Earth is being destroyed by Gah Lak Tus, and he could fight it to try to save the planet (As Surfer ends up doing)....and doesn't. Doom just LAUGHS as people die and the Earth crumbles around him, reveling in the destruction as it is destroying all ties to his former mortal life, and he seems to be planning to fly off into space and become a god over other planets, so yeah, not only actively allowing the Earth's destruction when knowing he could at least TRY to stop it, but taking such euphoric JOY in it flings him WAY over the line.
It's been ages since I saw those films, but it seems the big difference is that Doom doesn't care if the Earth is destroyed and is fine with leaving to conquer other worlds afterwards.

Considering how dark the work is (i know of it by reading Batman/Grendel crossovers), i assume no one else counts?