During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Dude has a point though. I made the same case
to cut the Demon Legacy ones until someone (calling ~Tyk5919?
) can verify them.
Anymore votes on The broken bloody one
Wolkins, Black Shadow, the image.
Abstain on Harkin.
- Viscount Wolkins is a noble that represents the pinnacle of the corrupt nobility. A man obsessed with his privileges, Wolkins uses his power to degrade those around him, hiring women that have nowhere to go as his maids and abusing them for fun, such as forcing them to eat on the floor or even using them as his enforcers. Out of self-indulgence, Wolkins takes commoners to play his game where he'll chain them together and hunt them down in an open field with his tank, promising them riches if they can survive. Nobody has ever came out alive, due to Wolkins secretly modifying the tank to be inescapable. When the Pumpkin Scissors Brigade came to investigate him, Wolkins had accumulated countless victims and decide to take them hostage, forcing the men to play his sadistic game. A tyrannical blue blood, Wolkins crushed hundreds of lives for his own sadistic fun.
Edited by ACW on Jan 27th 2020 at 5:04:44 AM
Leaning
for Lord Harkon. Barely. I think Elder Scrolls has been picked clean of possible candidates at this point considering how high the heinous standard is.
for Viz and Diz.
for Black Shadow.
And no, I'm not checking out Demon Legacy. There's a playthrough on YouTube that's apparently over twelve hours long. Don't have time for that, and I'm not wasting my time trying to justify a ban evader with the villains he/she proposed.
If there's ever some controversial candidate that I want to verify, I will let you all know, like I did with Fernando Vera and Oliver Miller. For now I'm focusing on my own To-Do List and stories.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Harkon and Black Shadow, who has the most hilariously epic death scene in all of anime history.
12 hours? Forget that. I was willing to watch the cutscenes for my Darkseid
, and also for my Contra baddies, but 12 hours? No.
Okay, we need more conversation on Harkon first. As for sparing the Dragonborn, it's less honor and more that he doesn't care at the time. For why I think he keeps...the side materials make the whole "raped by Molag Bal" thing much more explicit. It's a unique and twisted crime in the grand scheme, even for Elder Scrolls.
And an obvious yes to BURAKU SHADU. One of the best Nintendo villains to come through here. Now, as also promised...here's my evaluation from Grendel:
What's the work?
Grendel is a comic by Matt Wagner, initially a simple story of Hunter Rose, who is vital to understand this backstory. Hunter is a boy named Eddie from the streets of New York. A super genius and athlete, Eddie throws a major fencing match against an all star he could easily win, with only the British trainer Jocasta Rose recognizing his talent and taking him back to England where they begin a sexual relationship...Jocasta, already dying of a terminal illness, soon passes, while Eddie realizes he wishes to return and create an empire, taking the name Hunter Rose.
The problem is Hunter is also a ruthless, callous murderer, who adopts the identity of a masked vigilante known as Grendel and takes over the criminal underworld, with the cops struggling to stop him along with a being named Argent, a centuries-old N Ative America transformed into a wolf-like monster who is cursed with insatiable bloodlust that he satisfies by hunting criminals. As Grendel, Hunter eventually falls thanks to his adopted daughter who learns he murdered her mobster uncle, and sets up Hunter and Argent on a death duel, leaving the former dead and the latter crippled. Stacy has no happy ending, traumatized and ending up in therapy where she marries her doctor, who violently rapes her and kills himself on the wedding night, where Stacy gives birth to a daughter she names Christine, who is adopted by the Spar family...Stacy dies years later, making peace with her estranged daughter, while Christine becomes a journalist and publishes a book on her 'grandfather,' Hunter Rose. Her own husband dies overseas, leaving her a single mom with a boy named Anson....which is where we meet Christine, destined to take up the mantle of Grendel when she encounters her nemesis Tujiro XIV
Who is Tujiro?
A famed Kabuki dancer and heir to the legacy of the Tujiro name....which is actually just all him. Tujiro is famed the world over, traveling with his troupe and delivering mesmerizing dances with few people truly knowing much about him...in truth, Tujiro is deeply involved in the criminal underworld, many of his employees being thugs and mobsters.
Tujiro runs a massive human trafficking operation, buying and selling human beings...especially children. Christine and her friends attend a show from Tujiro and are invited to meet him backstage where he takes a liking to them, especially Christine's young son Anson...Anson soon goes missing, and Christine is desperate to find him. Using her journalism skills, she discovers that children have a tendency to go missing when Tujiro's troupe is in town and realizes that he is responsible. Christine dons the mask of Grendel after her grandfather and begins to track Tujiro...witnessing Tujiro with another kidnapped boy, things get a bit odd when Tujiro leans down with Christine unable to see anything...and then sees Tujiro pull his face up, with blood dripping from his fangs. He's a vampire...and his MO? Tujiro preys on little boys. Many kids get trafficked and sold, but others he takes a liking to? He eats personally, eating one of their eyes and keeping the other as a trophy. Christine finds a massive case full of preserved human eyes, recognizing one as Anson's, confirming that her son died the night Tujiro took him.
Tujiro soon recognizes Christine as Grendel, who is receiving oodles of unwanted police attention (especially from a retired Argent who is savagely eager to face his nemesis one more time)...Tujiro tries to kill Christine who manages to fight back, slowly subsuming herself into the 'spirit' of Grendel and becoming more vicious and ruthless in her revenge, until Tujiro seems only an obstacle to Argent, the Grendel Entity's true enemy (There is a sort of spirit that follows the mantle, a being of aggression)...Tujiro is defeated by Christine, but escapes in the form of a cat, crippled, but alive...Christine goes on to face Argent in a battle that ends with both killed, dying in the arms of her lover Brian.
Tujiro remains in his cat form for a while until he feeds on and turns the one who took him in....now, flash forward, because this requires some explanation. The 26th century? Most of the earth has been polluted by war and human doings. America has fragmented into corporate systems, largely dominated by the Vatican now placed in Colorado. The Pope is Innocent XLII...who, surprise, is Tujiro, with a haircut and having found religion. Well, not really, but Tujiro has infiltrated the church and risen to become pope. The Vatican is an instrument of horrific repression and violence, running inquisitions all over. Two unlikely....anti-heroes arise. One is Orion Assante, head of an excommunicated household, and a financial auditor out to fight the church's corruption with his twin sisters/lovers....and Eppy Thatcher, a misanthropic factory worker addicted to a drug called Grendel, who becomes the new Grendel out to disturb and fight the church.
As Pope, Tujiro/Innocent promotes a brutal system of taxation with people worked to the bone to create a giant tower for him, and anyone who proves a problem is murdered and disappeared. The population live in slavery and 'sinners' are taken to be tortured until they 'confess,' with this used to abduct and eliminate anyone particularly troublesome. Tujiro learns of Orion, who becomes more of a thorn in his side, and has his allies arrested and tortured, with more than a few not surviving the interrogations.
Oh, and did I mention he runs a human trafficking ring within the Vatican where any pedophiles in the ranks are given boys there? Because he does. Any rate, he's also building a 'sun gun' in secret to blot out the sun so only the church will provide light and warmth for the masses...things come to a head when Eppy/Grendel engages Tujiro and manages to wound him...when his loyal right-hand priest Lucas begs to help him, Tujiro stops hiding it, and reveals his nature, murdering and draining Lucas before eating one of his eyes.
yeah, the Sun Gun isn't to blot out the sun but destroy it. And not for religious reasons but to allow permanent vampiric domination over the planet. Tujiro is old and strong enough to survive the sun, but it's still a problem for others, and he's done messing around. Orion's sisters are killed in a failed attempt to apprehend them and Orion rallies an army to face the Vatican as Tujiro prepares the Sun Gun...
Only for Eppy to arrive in the midst to make it a battle royale. Engaging Tujiro himself, Eppy takes the lead in their fight, while mocking all the Catholic dogma...the Sun Gun is flipped to aim at the platform they're on as it fires...just as Eppy whacks Tujiro to sendhim flying off his platform into the path of the blast...as a screaming Tujiro is unmade utterly.
Orion? proceeds to take over the entire world in the chaos that follows, becoming Grendel Khan. All hail Grendel.
Heinousness?
Okay, Grendel is dark as fuck. Police corruption...Hunter and Argent alone? Hunter is a mass murderer who at one point kills a reporter who figures out his identity and erases the evidence by setting the corpse on fire, not caring one iota that the blaze consumes the apartment building they're in. His body count is absolutely enormous and he's not averse to torturing his victims, either...hell, Argent is a monster barely better than the criminals he fights.
As we graduate to the future...things get even dicier with guys like Orion and the later Grendel Prime who do horrible and ruthless things...but Tujiro? Child slavery, mass child murder, torture on industrial levels and oh yeah, trying to establish a vampire theocracy by destroying the sun and the consequences on humanity are abundantly clear.
Tujiro is the worst it ever gets in a sea of monsters and murderers.
Mitigating Qualities?
Laughable. Even as Innocent XLII his best act is a ruthless knight templar...and then when you learn he's Tujiro, there is not even an attempt to it. He's not a believer, just using it for power and all the atrocities he sanctions? Help keep people repressed and in his power. He does claim to appreciate his right hand man Lucas, until Eppy riles him up too much and he kills Lucas just for a quick snack without a flicker of remorse beyond "ah, well, you were useful guess I'll miss you....man, it sucks your eye's not tasty."
Conclusion?
A firm and easy yes, with a needed expansion to his entry coming.
Tujiro
Black Shadow. I know this guy from.the Youtube Poops. Good days
Hunter has moral standards (he refuses to hurt children) and loved ones in Jocasta Rose, even if he refuses to see that their relationship is abusive and twisted by any metric given she seduces a kid young enough to be her son and never bothers to tell him she's dying during it...and Stacy, even if he is the worst father imaginable.

Ban evader. Mods to be called.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."