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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#174976: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:06:55 PM

[tup] to God and Satan. I agree, non-sapient creatures shouldn't affect the heinous standard.

TBNY (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#174977: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:09:03 PM

I'm almost done with the book, maybe 100 pages to go. So I'll report back to you all on Novel!Dodgson and his crimes. If anything the closest we get to a film take of the character is Eli Mills from Fallen Kingdom, who by all counts is basically Dodgson.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#174978: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:10:44 PM

Detwiler and Momberg's entry needs a quick fix. Phil Burton's name is actually Phil BRUNTON. I also added a bit in about Momberg being a war criminal.

  • Designated Survivor: Garrett Detwiler and Wouter Momberg, both from season 3, are a pharmaceutical CEO and South African biochemist, respectively. Detwiler and Phil Brunton hire Momberg, a war criminal, to synthesize a biotoxin specifically for the purpose of infecting minorities and creating a mass sterilization so that the white demographic will be significantly higher in future elections. Detwiler also has a drug approved for one of his companies that he knows increases dependency so he can also have another sold that stops it. They have Aryans work on the toxin, and a scientist is fatally wounded and then burned alive when infected. In order to test the biotoxin, an OBGYN clinic that takes all minorities is targeted among others. Momberg then murders the Aryans and fatally poisons now CIA Agent Hannah Wells to cover their tracks, gleefully taunting her as she lays dying, and then later murders a scientist who catches onto him. When caught, he releases instructions for creating the toxin online and threatens FBI with the toxin, claiming infection is fatal.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 29th 2019 at 1:14:23 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174979: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:12:40 PM

[tup] God and Satan, even though I hate that trope with a passion.

I assume God doesn't count in the Bible due to canonical redeeming qualities? Not that I think he would anyways.

Happy 7000 pages, btw.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 29th 2019 at 4:14:23 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#174981: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:14:57 PM

That is a path we dont want to enter.

So moving on.

Happy 7000th page anyone.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#174982: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:15:42 PM

@Sky Yeah, that's a statement that gonna cause trouble.

@mir You know what, you too mir! Yeah 7000! That's crazy!

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jul 29th 2019 at 1:17:41 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#174983: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:16:04 PM

Yeah, that's not a road we wanna go down, at ALL [lol]

Lighty, who's your avatar again?

If we make it so non-sapients don't affect the heinous standard, I guess that means Crossed could be back on the table, if anyone wants it. I'd do it (I like Ennis's works; gorn doesn't bother me much), but Archive Panic.

Edited by ACW on Jul 29th 2019 at 4:20:11 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174984: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:16:54 PM

Sorry for bringing it up.

Moving on, if anyone wants to take a look at my to do list and take something off my hands, by all means, let me know and I'll hand it over.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#174985: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:17:00 PM

Well yeah.

[lol]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#174986: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:17:11 PM

Oh good. We're at lucky number 7000 now.

-explodes confetti poppers everywhere-

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174987: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:19:39 PM

Anyone gonna address my post about my to-do list?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#174988: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:20:44 PM

I checked it; nothing there that I'm that interested in.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#174989: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:21:40 PM

All yours dude.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 29th 2019 at 1:22:10 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#174990: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:23:50 PM

I'm putting my to-do list out there so that I don't get accused of holding those works captive, as I don't necessarily know if I'm gonna get to them on time.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#174991: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:26:11 PM

[up] I mean, you've mentioned your To-Do list and letting someone trim it four times now. I think if there was something up there someone else was super super passionate about, it would've come up.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#174993: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:34:05 PM

@ACW: I think the reason why everyone was cut from Crossed was less because the non-sapient antagonists affected the heinous standard, and more because the human cast jacked up the heinous standard altogether, kinda like The Walking Dead.

Like you, I've thought about getting into Crossed. But there's a lot of volumes. And my To-Do List is big enough as is.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#174994: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:36:34 PM

Yeah that kinda was the reason. Even the protaginists apperntly do awful stuff.

So lets just not bother.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#174995: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:37:29 PM

[up][up] I've read Crossed and i can confirm.

Deep down, every human is just as evil as the Crossed themselves. Aside from a particularly disturbing Story Arc which focuses on a serial killer/rapist having "fun" with his own friends, even the "normal" protagonists kill children because they couldn't afford to take care of them. Humans Are Bastards indeed.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 29th 2019 at 5:48:15 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#174996: Jul 29th 2019 at 1:40:27 PM

Quoting 43110 when this came up before.

Appenrlty even world ending has been done before.

So yeah......

Also Im not sure this new rule not to tkae animals into account would actually void the crossed not contributing to the heinous standard as apperntly there are indeed intelligent crossed who can think. So....

Edited by miraculous on Jul 29th 2019 at 2:01:39 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#174997: Jul 29th 2019 at 2:40:19 PM

1000 pages - 25000 posts! - in 5 and a half months.

You guys move fast.

As for animals and the heinous standard, I say no since they normally lack agency.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Jul 29th 2019 at 5:41:09 AM

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#174998: Jul 29th 2019 at 2:42:12 PM

Its actually a relatively new thing. The sheer number of new people on the thread have made us moving fast.

We'll hit 200,000 very soon too. By the end o the year at a maximum

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#174999: Jul 29th 2019 at 2:58:07 PM

Yeah, I remember a year or so ago 30-40 per week was normal, with anything above 40 rare. Now it's 40-50 easily, with 50+ not uncommon and 60+ not unheard of.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#175000: Jul 29th 2019 at 2:58:33 PM

175,000 th post on this thread.[awesome]

Edited by miraculous on Jul 29th 2019 at 2:59:08 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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