During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
What can I say? Psychopath love is absolutely not a good, positive or sane thing, and it can't be counted as a redeeming factor.
Ultimate Secret WarsThey knew they killing and hurting people, they just didn't care (part of the reason was that they created all the creatures they were hurting and saw them as their properties), they also scream at Mother of Creations for meddling with their war (calling her a bitch). And even when they thought they were humans, they still were horrible (at one point trying to kill Wanda, Terry and Cyan).
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 29th 2019 at 9:16:31 PM
Say, this is another incarnation for Spawn. How many does God himself have? There's this one, Preacher, and the anime one from Mao Dante.
I think I'll put them at the top of the tree.
Edited by ACW on Jul 29th 2019 at 2:23:18 PM
That'd be weird tbh.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Whatever the decision is, we should probably add something to Administrivia.Complete Monster
Sure to God and Satan.
Feels kinda weird to say yes to God knowing that I'm a Muslim, but hey, if he fits the standards in this comic...
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Spawn villains
I tried making a rewrite for Gralo. It probably needs some work, but anything is better than the original writeup. I'd like to know if there's anything wrong with my version so I can improve, as I'm not very experienced with writeups
Original: Gralo is an evil Krassau (a god-like avian being) who saw his species as so superior to “lesser creatures” that he felt entitled to rip the life and magic out of everyone in his path, as well as the land itself, leaving lifeless devastation in his wake, solely to increase his own power. By the time we meet him, he's already guilty of maiming sixty one people and murdering another thirty eight, in addition to the above widespread devastation. When Nahmat managed to discover a way to counter his power, rather than face the consequences of his actions, Gralo fled to Equestria, where he possessed an innocent Griffin wizard named Garret and controlled him from within-leaving him aware the entire time. The moment Nahmat has seemingly been driven off, Gralo emerges and sucks Garret dry of his magic and everything magical (such as emotions and liveliness), leaving him an Empty Shell solely because he has outlived his usefulness. He soon tries the same to not only the Mane Six but Equestria as a whole, threatening to destroy all life in the universe, only failing thanks to The Power of Friendship and Nahmat keeping ponies alive. He gleefully tries to give Breaking Lectures to the Princesses, seemingly only for his own amusement, and threatens to suck Cadence dry in front of them just to make them suffer. After finally being defeated and his stolen magic returned to where it belonged by the Princesses and Nahmat, Gralo is judged by his own kind, who deem his atrocities so monstrous and vile, the only fitting punishment is to be sentenced to an And I Must Scream fate because death would be better than he deserves. Even as he's being Dragged Off to Hell, Gralo never once shows one ounce of remorse for his actions, instead using his last moments of freedom to try and vainly turn the Princesses against Nahmat in petty revenge.
Rewrite: Gralo is an evil Krassu who desires to absorb all magic to increase his power, leaving lifelessness in his wake, justifying himself with the belief that his species is superior to all other beings. Having already caused widespread death and destruction, Gralo fled to Equestria to escape punishment and possessed Garret while leaving him conscious, reducing him to an Empty Shell when Gralo had no more use for him. He tries to drain all things magical—including emotions and liveliness—from Equestria's population, threatening to obliterate all life in the universe. Gralo also gives breaking lectures to the Princesses and threatens to suck Candence dry to make them suffer. Gralo was a vile enough being that his kind considers a fate worse than death the only fitting punishment for him, and in his final moments of freedom, he spitefully attempts to turn the Princesses against Nahmat.
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Got home early.
I'm in the camp that non-sapient creatures shouldn't affect the HS.
IPP Wick Check created.The closest things novel!Dodgson that done is the fact that he is essentially kidnapping babies right from the eggs, not caring if he kills the parents or not. He uses a sonic weapon to do this, enjoying the fact the animals run away in fear, wetting themselves. And he also tries to kill Sarah Harding when she gets a ride to the island with the Bio Syn team, trying to make it look like an accident in the process as the ship goes into dangerous waters. He also seems to be out for himself because he doesn't care when one of his partners dies from a T.rex attack and berates his partners when they aren't doing something he has ordered. Adding to this, he is greedy but that's how Michael wrote businessmen at times.
I am more or less almost done with the novel, but yeah, Novel!Dodgson is the only through and through evil character in the series, films and video game series included. It is rather hard to put into words with Dodgson.
Edited by TBNY on Jul 29th 2019 at 3:17:33 PM

Ehhh, they're bad enough, and I think they get it.
I'll say yes.