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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#168676: Jun 19th 2019 at 5:56:53 PM

@Klavice: That may be a good idea. To give some ideas, I'd say around 7 "generic" murders(stabbings, shootings) would be enough in a crime series, maybe fewer if the killings are particularly brutal or sadistic. For a fantasy series, dozens of kills would be the minimum baseline(unless the murders are particularly sadistic like Sild the Warlock's). For a superhero or action work, hundreds may be the minimum baseline unless, again, the killings are particularly sadistic. For a realistic drama, 4 murders may be enough, especially if the killings are of family members. For horror movies, I'd say around 9-10 murders would be enough, maybe around 14 for slasher flicks.

BTW, that's not true on Syndrome: one reason he was voted down previously was because a flashback villain aimed a missile at the city.

[down]Yeah, that's a good point; I was a bit hesitant on it too.

Edited by falcontalons on Jun 19th 2019 at 6:04:48 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#168677: Jun 19th 2019 at 6:03:51 PM

Yes to Catherine and @ Klavice, I see where you're coming from but I don't think an exact figure is going to work, too contextual to neatly break up.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#168678: Jun 19th 2019 at 6:07:18 PM

Yeah lets not do that.

There are plenty of finer detils which could make someone count r not. So it seems like unnecessarily putting a limit for something that doesn't quite hve one.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#168680: Jun 19th 2019 at 6:27:37 PM

Hey guys, I think I found a potential candidate and it’s Malefor from the Skylanders Comics. I know, it’s skeptical since it’s Skylanders, but what I heard from it, Malefor is taken quite seriously, especially when compared to his Academy counterpart. Has he been discussed before though? I feel like I shown know before I even think about E Ping him.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#168681: Jun 19th 2019 at 6:44:45 PM

What 43 said. Having an exact figure for qualification would cause a lot of problems, since the way the villain goes about their crimes could be worse than another despite having a smaller amount of victims.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Trashman91 Since: Oct, 2018
#168683: Jun 19th 2019 at 6:53:13 PM

I've just re-watched Toy Story 3, and there's something I wanted to say about Lotso's entry:

  • Toy Story 3: Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear is the ruler of Sunnyside Daycare, and oppresses the other toys through brute force and violence. Originally the favorite toy of a young girl named Daisy, Lotso was mistakenly lost and replaced, leading him to believe that all toys were worthless and unloved. Taking over Sunnyside, Lotso subjects the toys in the Caterpillar Room to horrid mistreatment from the younger children. When Andy's toys request that they be relocated to the Butterfly Room, Lotso resets Buzz Lightyear and has him beat down his friends, showing a cold satisfaction while doing so. When Woody frees the toys and they attempt to escape, Lotso has Chatter Telephone beaten in order to get him to explain Woody's escape plan before ordering the toys disposed of in the dumpster. When his minions turn on him and he is taken to the dump, along with Andy's toys, he abandons them to burn to death in the incinerator, ignoring that they had previously saved his life. While he has a tragic backstory, Woody himself calls him out on how weak it is, stating that Lotso had abandoned her, not the other way around. Sociopathic and misanthropic, Lotso may have appeared innocent, but was depraved at his core.

I'm not contesting that he counts, but I think that his entry doesn't make note of one of the main things that makes him so evil. It says that "Taking over Sunnyside, Lotso subjects the toys in the Caterpillar Room to horrid mistreatment from the younger children.", which is true, but the toys aren't just tossed around- they're often broken, which for almost all of them means they get sent to the garbage dump and their almost certain deaths. This has certainly happened to countless toys in the past except for the few who got themselves into Lotso's good graces. Chuckles the Clown was the one exception, where he was taken home by a kid and fixed there.

Honestly, before I rewatched it, I thought that the main reason Lotso qualified for this trope was because of what he does right at the end, but in fact sending toys to their doom was something he had already been routinely doing for years.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#168684: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:07:07 PM

Okay, so a special EP tonight:

what's the work?

Iron Maiden is known as one of the Metal bands, and for the epic power rocking, as well as the epic singing of Bruce Dickinson...and for their awesome references to history, literature, movies, etc. 13 minute epic rock song about the poem Rime of the Ancient Mariner? Yeah, that's where it's at.

So, the EP? Is from their album Seventh Son of a Seventh Son and our villain?

Lucifer.

Who is Lucifer?

The fallen, the devil, the lord of all evil. Now, the Seventh son of a seventh son is being born, a mystical being who has great power. In the opening song, Moonchild, Lucifer introduces himself as the lord of sin who tempts mankind to evil and damnation in eternal fire....fearing the power of the Seventh Son of the Seventh Son, Luifer attempts to sway the mother into infanticide with the lines

"Don't you dare to save your son/ Kill him now and save the young ones/ Be the mother of a birth-strangled babe/ Be the Devil's own, Lucifer's my name"

Lucifer vows to find and destroy the children, as well as to drive them to suicide....and "f you try to save your soul/ I will torment you, you shall not grow old/ With every second and passing breath/ You'll be so alone, your soul will bleed to death." Some of the children die thanks to Lucifer who gloats that "some will die and some will live, you'll beg forgiveness, none I'll give!"

As the Seventh son grows and gains his power, Lucifer attempts to tempt him to darkness, fearing his power, having his daughter seduce the Seventh Son while corrupting him with the evil of mankind....and then? He visits horrible disasters on the Seventh Son's part, resulting in the people turning on the Seventh Son after so much death. The Seventh Son turns on humanity, and the album ends in his death and damnation, as Lucifer gloats and plots the ruin of mankind.

Only the good die young. All evil lasts forever. "Purgatory beckons souls lost forever/ Life after death or heaven hereafter/ Heard the call of the seven whistlers again/ Now Lucifer laughs hell awaits/

Heinousness?

Only villain here, sets it. Lucifer is the bad guy.

Mitigating Qualities?

HELL no, pun intended. he's the devil, ain't he?

Conclusion?

The devil's music? Perhaps. And he makes it.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#168685: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:07:32 PM

@Lightysnake Alrighty then.

And [tup] to Lucifer.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jun 19th 2019 at 7:12:07 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#168686: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:12:17 PM

Yes to Lucifer

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#168689: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:15:43 PM

[tup]to Lucifer

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#168690: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:15:51 PM

[tup] to Lucy Goosey(If you get this reference your an Awesome)

And I could see a rewrite for Lotso.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#168696: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:51:17 PM

[tup] Lucifer. Also throwing in a no to the administavia change, being a CM isn't a numbers game imo, especially since we have people like Thailog from Gargoyles who passes mostly due to the personal cruelty displayed by his manipulations rather than the number of people he successfully hurt.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#168697: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:57:39 PM

[tup]Lucifer.

Why so serious?
KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature

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