During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
And another that's been on the to-do ever since I checked out King Rat...
What's the setting?
Perdido Street Station is the start of China Mieville's Bas-Lag Cycle, and one of the defining entries into the New Weird genre that Mieville codified. We follow the scientist Isaac Dan der Grimnebulin who lives in the strange city of New Crobuzon, where species and beings of all shapes and forms called xenians live and crimes are punished through the body-altering process of "Remaking". Isaac falls in with a bird man named Yagharek who can no longer fly because his wings were cut off for a "choice-theft" (a horrible crime in his culture) and contracts Isaac to make him new wings... while all this is going on, Isaac's beetle-headed girlfriend, Lin, is approached by a strange buyer who wants to put her skills to use. Enter Mr. Motley.
Who is Mr. Motley? What has he done?
Motley's name is incredibly fitting—when Lin first meets Motley, she finds a monster of a xenian, or man, or someone who has Remade himself so many times into a patchwork of a hundred different faces, mouths and appendages. Motley? Wants his multifarious image captured in a statue, and Lin's the one to do it.
Initially seeming affable and talkative as Lin makes a statue of his grotesque visage, Motley's affairs become clear soon after Lin is contracted—Motley is a powerful crime kingpin who runs rackets, assassination and the peddling of dreamshit, a powerful hallucinatory drug. Motley does not take well to competition, and Lin catches some of his regular behavior entering his base, where his goons—many of them horrifically Remade themselves—make a regular practice out of taking horrible retribution on those who infringe on Motley's affairs, with murder and torture incredibly common in his affairs. Motley, to further increase his dreamshit harvesting operation, buys five beings called slake-moths—mind-devouring insectoid horrors—to further produce revenue... and they end up escaping and flying out into New Corbuzon.
Motley realizes this is Isaac's fault (his slake-moth? Freed its siblings from Motley's captivity) and kidnaps Lin over it. Motley tortures her for weeks, heavily indicated to rape her, savaging her day in and day out and sending a message with parts of Lin's head-wings encapsulated and telling him that he'll continue to dismember her one piece at a time every two days and feed her alive and screaming to his pet rats after there's no more of her to torture if he doesn't surrender himself. One of Isaac's friends sadly reflects that this is all too common for Motley and those who receive these letters already have their loved ones killed by the time they receive the extortion message. Isaac refuses to believe it... indeed, Lin is still alive, as Motley refuses to actually murder her until she's finished the statue. Lin is a tortured shell of herself when Isaac finally rescues her and Motley attempts to murder Isaac and the others on the scene. Fortunately, a slake-moth ends up giving them time to escape. Unfortunately, it drains Lin of half her mind, and though Isaac and the others escape from Motley for good, Lin is half-lobotomized and Motley is untouched in the end... albeit, cheated out of his statue, with the last we see of him fuming over this.
Any mitigating factors?
Bas-Lag is dark. The protagonists get to some pretty morally ambiguous stuff, Yag's "choice-theft" is revealed to be rape—at which Isaac completely forsakes all connection with him—and New Crobuzon is a Wretched Hive of all manners of criminals and corrupt governmental officials (there's one more who may count, New Crobuzon's corrupt mayor Rudgutter). Motley, though, is one of the biggest sources of awful crime in the city... past the regular torture, murder, and awful Remaking of his subordinates, what Motley does to Lin is fucked and it's further compounded by the heavily implications he raped her on top of the week-long torture. He doesn't have a glimmer of any redeeming quality, with all his initial affability a complete farce for his true viciousness, and I think he easily distinguishes himself even in the setting.
Conclusion?
I say keep him. Long overdue, particularly given how well-known the book is.
Thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on Jun 17th 2019 at 7:48:52 AM
Following off that, I offer the nastiest other denizen of New Crobuzon: Mayor Bentham Rudgutter.
Who is Rudgutter?
A representation of political corruption, ruthlessness and political calculation, Rudgutter is ancient, having been mayor since 'forever' according tothe people of New Crobuzon, and runs it as a paranoid dictator with much of the city's darkness coming to him, from being forcibly turned into the Remade as punishment: hideous amalgamations of man and machine or animal. Rudgutter is also a fan of...harsh measures, sending his militias into the city to kill, beat and brutalize anyone he deems as dissidents, or any who speak out against him.
Rudgutter is corrupt as hell, making deals with crime syndicates to let them do their thing, but 'dissidents' are purged without mercy. Now, in Perdido Street Station? That's when the Slake Moths arrive: the horrific, demonic creatures that drain the intellect from people, which threatens Rudgutter's power base, forcing Rudgutter to negotiate first with the demons of hell (literally), which he promises to seal with 'merchandise,' in the way you're probably thinking of. Along the way, too? Rudgutter has his second in command killed as a potential threat.
Now, even with the Slake Moths dealt with when Rudgutter gets the extradimensional spider known as the Weaver involved, Rudgutter's tyranny continues. 'Dissidents' are rounded up, innocent or no, and tortured and executed by the truck load, included the team of the infamous outlaw/revolutionary Jack Half-a-Prayer, who is eventually taken himself by Rudgutter's goons and disposed of, according to the short story Jack. Rudgutter builds his empire on torture and murder, and one really nasty detail? The Eyespy killer is a murderer who leaves eyeless corpses about...it turns out? This is Rudgutter himself, or acting through his militias, as when his eyes 'wear out,' he needs a new pair...
Perdido? Ends with Rudgutter wholly triumphant and escaping punishment, reigning over his kingdom brutally....it's mentioned he died later in Iron Council when his secretary Eliza is the new Mayor, but the cause is never revealed...but given how old he is? Its implied he just passed of natural causes. Karma, or lack thereof, is a bitch, isn't it?
Heinousness?
Oh, lord. Even with Motley about, Rudgutter is deplorable. Serial killer, mass murdering, torture, etc? He's a tinpot, brutal dictator and a horrific bastard to boot. Pass.
Mitigating Qualities?
No. Rudgutter cares about New Crobuzon insofar as it keeps him in power. He defines political corruption and brutality for that end, nothing more.
Conclusion?
A hearty keeper.
To that duo.
What is the work? Murphy's War (not to be confused with Murphy's Law) is an obscure cult-classic film from 1971. Our protagonist is the titular Murphy, an Irishman who lost all of his friends during the closing days of World War II. Seeking revenge at any cost, Murphy wages an one-man war (duh) against those resposible for the tragedy, their leader being the candidate for today.
Who is he? Blonde, blue-eyed and determined, Lieutenant Captain Lauchs is the definition of the Aryan stereotype and (unsurprisingly) a member of the Nazi Navy, the Kriegsmarine, being the commander of his own U-boat submarine. A man with a strong nonchalant attitude even when watching people die, Lauchs is directly responsible for the film's plot, starting the story by sinking a merchant ship, the Mount Kyle, for apparently no reason while cruising the South American coastline, massacring the countless people aboard and either bombing or gunning down the helpless men who tried to escape, ordering his to not only shoot at the water but also at an airplane pilot; only Murphy was left as the sole survivor, and was soon returned to health with the help of a pacifist "lady doctor" named Hayden, who worked at a missionary settlement to help the natives. Proud of essentially having committed a war crime, Lauchs celebrates with the rest of his men, but it doesn't take long for him to discover that there were survivors, Murphy and the aforementioned pilot. Arriving at the settlement, Lauchs cowardly executes the pilot in cold-blood by emptying his magazine on a man that was recovering from his injuries and destroys Hayden's radio equipment, justifying his crime by saying that murdering the poor guy, even he was incapable of defending himself, was his "responsability".
After Murphy learns how to fly in a process of trial-and-error, he takes the man's plane and tries to have his revenge by bombing the submarine with a bunch of homemade molotovs, which obviously fails. Lauchs follows the plane and returns to Hayden's hospital, ordering his men to fire at the village, wounding and killing several more innocent people, enough for Hayden to make a graveyard for them. The war eventually ends, but not to Murphy, who declares that their is over, not his. Planning on ramming a floating crane into the submarine, Murphy confronts Lauchs, and he again shows just how much of a coward he is by trying to reason with Murphy, telling him that the war is over, which would also mean escaping with impunity. After firing at the floating crane and failing to sink it, Lauchs submerges the U-boat in an attempt to escape from Murphy's wrath but karma proves to be a bitch as the submarine ends up stuck in a mud bank, allowing Murphy to drop a torpedo on the U-boat, drowning not only Lauchs and his crewmen but also Murphy himself as the explosion caused the ship to sink with him trapped aboard, the man was poetically consumed by his revenge.
Mitigating Factors? In a brief scene, Lauchs receives an Iron Cross made out of a sausage can from one of his subordinates for having destroyed the Mount Kyle, and Lauchs comments that he will still wear it even after he is awarded with a real Iron Cross; this is the only moment that sightly humanizes him but we don't have any confirmation if Lauchs is polite to his crewmen because he sees them as genuine friends or because they are just as bad as he is, but during his fight against Murphy, the same subordinate says that "there will be no Iron Cross" for Lauchs now.
Heinous? Aside from, you know, being a Nazi, Lauchs is the mastermind behind two completely unnecessary massacres.
Conclusion? Giving Lauchs a
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jun 17th 2019 at 11:07:46 AM
I've been waiting for this... Yes to Motley and Rudgutter. Sorry if I keep pestering you a little bit regarding the EP earlier. @Scraggle @Lightysnake
Also, yes to Cr0w's candidate too
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jun 17th 2019 at 8:53:33 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Anyone I missed.
Anyways can I propose a minor edit to the quote on top of the CM page for Star Wars?
Currently it reads:
Sheev Palpatine (the future Emperor): I don't need anyone's permission.
Cosinga: Precisely. You're an animal at heart.
Sheev: King of the beasts, Father.
The novel Darth Plagueis is only canon within Legends. Palpatine's first name was never revealed in Legends at all, with the first name of Sheev being solely a SWCU(Star Wars Cinematic Universe—My nickname for the Disney canon) invention.
I propose we change it to this.
Palpatine (the future Emperor): I don't need anyone's permission.
Cosinga: Precisely. You're an animal at heart.
Palpatine: King of the beasts, Father.
to everyone I've missed now then here's Hickey's write-up
- The Terror: "Cornelius Hickey" of the HMS Terror is in truth a stowaway who murdered the real Cornelius Hickey and stole his identity. On HMS Terror, Hickey would blackmail a sailor into having sex with him and would attempt to murder the Inuit shaman "Lady Silence". Abandoning the HMS Terror stuck on Arctic Ice, Hickey would murder his own hunting party and frame an innocent Inuit family for the deed resulting in their murders, children included. Separating from Captain Francis Croizer and kidnapping Dr. Henry "Harry" Goodsir, Hickey would kill his own sexual partner and force Goodsir to butcher the body for Hickey and his men to eat, threatening to do such to Goodsir if he doesn't comply to Hickey's demands. Finding Goodsir to have committed suicide, Hickey mutilates Goodsir's corpse and forces Crozier to partake in the cannibalism before having him and his own men in chains to use as bait for The Tuunbaq while Hickey attempts to control the Beast. The Tuunbaq would die trying to devour Cornelius Hickey because of how utterly vile Hickey's soul truly was.
Also I looked at Chrysis' entry and though it could add a little something( the changes are in bold).
- Assassin's Creed: Odyssey: Chrysis is a priestess of Hera who forbade medical treatment in Argolis, believing it to be sacrilege. She has also kidnapped the Eagle Bearer's younger sibling and turned him and numerous others into human weapons for the Cult of Kosmos by torturing them when they were infants. Chrysis would have a fellow priest's tongue ripped out and ordered a landlord of her own son, Dolops, when they witness Chrysis kidnapping the children. When confronted by the Eagle Bearer, Chrysis has the house with a baby inside burned, forcing the Eagle Bearer to choose between saving the baby and chasing Chrysis; should the Eagle Bearer chose the former, Chrysis would later ambush the Eagle Bearer, killing an innocent man along the way.
I'll add these to the drafts pronto
Edited by G-Editor on Jun 17th 2019 at 4:40:27 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ares, Hordak, King Hiss and the Perdido Street Station villains
Alright, one other. Gonna make this one really quick... Lighty pointed me out to a few iterations of a person I still haven't added to my trophy rack yet. Today? That changes. From DC Comic's Weird War Tales, an anthology series from the 70s, from issue #58... Adolf Hitler, from Death of a Dictator.
Who is Hitler? What has he done?
No introduction needed. Hitler, at the end of WWII, after having gleefully slaughtered millions, finds himself losing the war and resolves for a back-up plan. Introduced gunning down a long-haired man who sneaked into his base, who seems to be an assassin, Hitler cajoles his wife Eva Braun into taking a cyanide capsule, claiming they'll die together... whoops, he lied, sneering "it is an honor to die for your Fuehrer!" as Eva dies in horror. Hitler's master plan? Go into cryogenic sleep for 1,100 years exactly, where his scientists have confirmed history repeats itself exactly. Hitler is frozen, dreaming of all the oceans of blood he'll spill, and has all of his loyal scientists massacred as his final order to ensure the room is never found.
Hitler comes out 1,100 years in the future, his hair grown, and prepares to restart his conquest... only to be captured by guards, and brought before... his future self. Or another Hitler. Who executes him in the same way Hitler executed the long-haired "assassin" at the beginning, before future Hitler leaves to return centuries later himself, his own reign destroyed... history doomed to repeat itself, as Hitler dies over and over and over again.
Any mitigating factors?
Adolf Hitler. For a cheesy 70s short, he passes easily.
Conclusion?
My first Hitler. Hopefully not the last.
Thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on Jun 17th 2019 at 8:25:41 AM

@43
His name wasn't Potholed that before, it seems ACW just made that change by now.
EDIT:Checked the history, yeah ACW made the change. I think the issue is resolved by now.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 17th 2019 at 5:42:57 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here