During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
What's The Work?
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
John Whorfin is the ruthless leader of the Red Lectroids, a race of violent fascist aliens from Planet 10 who opposed the peaceful Black Lectroids. Lord Whorfin was a dictator and tyrannical psychopath who ruled over Planet 10 is stated by the Black Lectroids' leader John Emdall to be as much of a 'bloodthristy butcher' as Hitler.
For his crimes, Whorfin and his Red Lectroids were banished to the 8th Dimension as punishment. However in 1938 Whorfin and his men were accidently freed by Dr. Emilio Lizardo when he used his and Dr. Hikita's prototype overthruster too soon.
Whorfin possessed Lizardo while his forces invaded Earth and when Orson Welles tried to broadcast it to the world, they forced him to tell everyone his broadcast was a hoax, creating the famous radio play War of the Worlds.
Whorfin was placed in Trenton Home for the Criminally Insane after they believed that Lizardo went insane from what he saw in the 8th Dimension. After seeing Buckaroo Banzai perfect the overthruster and pierce the 8th Dimension, Whorfin leaves the institute, killing the guard who works there and contacts his right hand, John Bigboote who is now along with the other Red Lectroids founded Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, under the front of building a United States Air Force bomber in actual fact building a spaceship to go home to Planet 10.
John Emdall contacts Buckaroo and his gang and states that if they don't stop Whorfin and the Red Lectroids before sundown, they will fire an energy weapon at Russia, creating World War 3 and lead to the destruction of their world.
The Red Lectroids capture Buckaroo's love interest Penny and has her tortured for the whereabouts of the overthruster and afterwards calls Buckaroo offering the trade his life and the overthruster for her life. When he arrives, Whorfin hooks him up to a torture device and electrocutes Buckaroo violently when he refuses to cooperate.
When Buckaroo escapes, he gives the order to kill Penny with an alien slug. Without the overthruster, Whorfin decides to use the unfinished prototype but Bigboote tries to warn him that doing so could destroy the ship and all of their forces, but Whorfin is too obsessed with going home to care about the wellbeing of his people and kills Bigboote for talking back to him.
Buckaroo and the Black Lectroid John Parker are able to destory Whorfin's ship and prevent him from returning to Planet 10, sparing Earth.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
Whorfin is stated to be a dictator and psychopath by the Black Lectroids, a ruthless ruler and self-proclaimed lord of Planet 10. He rules over his people with fear and power, and while he is trying to get his forces and himself home, it's clear they are just pawns for him to use to conquer Planet 10, shown that he is too obsessed with going home that he'll fly a ship with an unfinished overthruster which could lead to their ship being destroyed and killing all his men.
He treats his right hand Bigboote with little respect, mispronouncing his name and verbally abusing him. He becomes so fed up with him that he kills him for rightfully trying to point out his flaws.
Heinousness
He has committed several crimes and atrocities towards Planet 10 in league with Hitler's holocaust and dictatorship, leading to him being banished to the 8th Dimension.
He has murdered at least 5 people throughout the film that he didn't have to, and only did so because they were annoying him rather than because they were a threat.
He has both Penny and Buckaroo viciously tortured for information on the overthruster and even has her killed after Buckaroo escapes and though she is rescued, but actually dies from the injuries inflicted on her from the torture, in which Buckaroo has to use an ionic charge to revive her.
He wants to go home so badly that he will use an unfinished overthruster that could destroy their ship and kill everyone on board, showing that as long as he gets home, he could care less about his forces. He kills Bigboote for trying to explain this to him and attempts to kill Buckaroo and Parker when they try and stop him.
Final Verdict
The film is kind of a cheesy 80s flick in many respects and follows its own logic, but Whorfin stands out in it for how depraved and psychotic he is. He lacks the humor his men do and while you could consider him funny and a little hammy, he isn't play intentionally funny, at least that's what I think.
I think he qualifies but I'll let you guys decide that.
To answer rjd's question, this thread is the main one for editing the Complete Monster pages and thus I think that Septimus wanted us to weigh in, probably since not a lot of people here were involved in the Image Pickn' thread. I still vote no to the image btw.
Also
Whorfin
Edited by papyru30 on May 25th 2019 at 7:31:46 AM
Will say
to Toby, but
to Vandal Savage.
Ferris Boyle has been discussed and down voted, and I do not think he qualifies. Not only does he fall short in comparison to fellow businessman-villain Simon Stagg, but he really does not even cross a baseline. He is an arrogant dick with a murder or two, a few implied crimes against consumers, and trying to take Nora off life support and being the catalyst for Freeze's transformation. Even in a "vacuum", as they say, he would have a hard time counting. In the Arkham Series, he absolutely does not IMO.
Got back from the new Aladdin not that long ago. It was certainly not perfect, but it was good. PM me to discuss.
As much as I would have loved to say yes because I hate him so much,
to Agamemnon for reasons stated. Also @emperors, did you watch the Director's Cut?
The EP I decided not to do was Dr. Jason Woodrue from Batman & Robin by the way.
I got a long EP for you guys that I've been working on for a while.
What's the Work?
Arc of a Scythe is a novel series by Neal Shusterman. The series is still in progress and this EP will concern the first book Scythe. The books are set in the future where humanity has gotten rid of everything that could be considered a problem, pain and unpleasant emotions are suppressed by nanites in the blood, people can be revived from death and can make themselves physically younger anytime they want, and government is a thing of the past, all affairs are handled by the Thunderhead.
However there is one organization that the Thunderhead has no control over and that is the Scythes. People specially chosen to kill people to curb the population (in the book being killed by someone is called "gleaning" for the sake of convenience I will only use that word when necessary). The Scythdom is split into many regions which meet at conclaves 3 times a year to discuss matters regarding their rules, conclaves are overseen by a High Blade. All scythes lose their original names and go by the name of a historical figure that they admire, can give a person immunity from being killed for a year by having people kiss their rings, must kill the families of people who try to resist being killed, and can only die through suicide. All Scythes are expected to not enjoy killing and to do so without prejudice.
The story follows Citra and Rowan, two teenagers chosen to be apprentices by Scythe Faraday. The first book follows their training to become Scythes under Faraday.
Who is Scythe Goddard?
Scythe Goddard is the former apprentice of High Blade Xenocrates of the Mid Merican region, and is known as "The Master of Mass Gleanings". He's introduced announcing to a fully booked plane that he and his junior Scythes, Rand, Volta, and Chomsky will be killing everyone on board, commenting that he will have to kill the family of a stewardess who runs away. He tries to force one of the passengers to choose the order in which they are killed, but the passenger realizes that Goddard is taking great joy in making him choose and refuses to do so, making the Scythes kill everyone randomly instead.
He's then seen killing an entire food court of people, sparing only a young girl named Esme, taking her in. He then forces a man to give his house to him, killing the security detail and making the man and his family into his servants.
At the first conclave Goddard fakes an accusation of cruelty against himself to dissuade people from criticising him. He then has Rand request that when Citra or Rowan is ordained as a Scythe that they should kill the other as their first act, this is to harm his rival Faraday but the decision is justified by the fact that the two clearly care for eachother. This causes Faraday commit suicide in an attempt to free the two from his apprenticeship. Goddard takes in Rowan while Scythe Curie, a friend of Faraday, takes in Citra, revealing that Goddard attempted to take in both of them, something that Curie compared to cock fighting in his attempt to pit them against each other.
Rowan's apprenticeship reveals a lot about Goddard and his junior Scythes, Rand and Chomsky are sadistic thugs while Volta is only working for Goddard because he's afraid of being an outcast due to the popularity of Goddard's philosophy. He starts Rowan's training by turning off his pain suppressing nanites and beating him up badly. He has Rowan practice on live targets, who will be revived afterwards, and has him always leave the last one alive in order to give Rowan a sense of bloodlust similar to Goddard's. While training Rowan, the five of them go on four mass killing sprees with one having a confirmed bodycount of 263.
At the second conclave Goddard fakes another accusation which High Blade Xenocrates dismisses with a joke at Goddard's expense. Shortly after Goddard throws a party which is attended by Rowan's friend Tyger, and Xenocrates. At the party Goddard reveals his anger at the joke made at the conclave and reveals that Esme is Xenocrates' illegitimate daughter. Goddard threatens to kill Esme and forces Xenocrates to jump into the pool, embarrassing himself in public and nearly getting himself temporarily killed. After the party Rowan reveals that he and Citra are suspicious of Goddard and that they think he may have killed Faraday, a notion Goddard responds to by threatening to kill Citra's family and Rowan's friend Tyger. Goddard then has Xenocrates frame Citra for Faraday's death nearly succeeding in having her detained to be executed by Rowan at the final conclave. Citra manages to escape and clear her name, learning that Faraday actually faked his death.
Shortly before the final conclave Goddard goes on one last killing spree, violating the Mid Merican quota of only killing a certain number of people a year and the 2nd of the 10 commandments of the Scythedom by targeting a Tone Cult, the only remaining religion in the world. He has Rowan block the exit, with orders to kill anybody who tries to escape. During the killing Volta kills an entire room full of children, causing him to commit suicide out of guilt in front of Rowan. Rowan confronts Goddard who has saved the last person in the cult for Rowan to kill and reveals Volta's suicide, which Goddard responds to by insulting Volta. He urges Rowan to kill the cultist saying that Rowan has grown to be a Scythe just like himself and saying that not killing the man would be cowardly. Rowan responds by killing Goddard Rand and Chomsky and using Chomsky's flamethrower to burn their bodies to prevent them from being revived. At the last conclave Citra is ordained as a Scythe and helps Rowan to escape being killed by her, Rowan goes on to call himself Scythe Lucifer, hunting down other cruel Scythes and killing them with fire to prevent revival.
Heinousness?
The heinousness standard of the books is kind of weird. Scythes are required to kill people and it is likely that Scythes like Faraday and Curie, who are over a hundred years old, have killed more than Goddard personally has, but including the people his junior Scythes have killed it's likely that he has a higher body count despite being a Scythe for much less time than them. He's also openly sadistic, a trait that is looked down upon by older Scythes and goes against the philosophy the Scythedom was founded on. He also violates the Mid Merican quota, the 2nd Scythe commandment and the 8th through his owning a mansion and many other expensive things which makes him much worse than the other Scythes. Him being willing to kill children also sets him apart from other Scythes since, despite the Scythedom looking down on Scythes who don't kill some kids since it is technically bias, Curie outright refuses to kill kids and Faraday broke down completely after killing a kid. I haven't read much of the 2nd book but it seems like there are more and more Scythes like Goddard showing up, causing a lot of tension with older Scythes, but I doubt that the ones who are focused on are as bad as Goddard since the first Scythe Rowan targets in the book is stated to tie people up and play a song before killing them and has killed a person to help a friend.
Mitigating Factors?
He doesn't care about his junior Scythes, insulting Volta's death, and his interest in Rowan is mostly since he sees him as a challenge to train and marvels at his skill at killing, he doesn't care for Rowan as a person. While killing he shouts about how him killing people is a gift since it turns them from immortal "gods" into mortal "men" but he also contradicts himself by calling his giving out mass immunity from being killed generous. Him giving out immunity also doesn't make him more sympathetic since he calls it a "public relations opportunity" used to make himself look better. His philosophy regarding scythes is also openly horrible he believes that all scythes must be sadistic like him since people should enjoy their jobs, and calls for the end of the quota since he wants to go on killing sprees more.
The only thing that gives me pause his him sparing two people before one of his killing sprees. The first one is a security guard who Rand tries killing while making a knock knock joke, Goddard tells her to not "waste it on him." The 2nd is a woman who gave him a keycard to a door in the building he was killing in. To me this is less actual mercy than Goddard not wanting to go against his normal formula of announcing his killing to as many people as possible before starting the killing, since he loves to make a show of killing and is shown to always announce his killing before doing so.
Final Verdict?
I'd say yes.
Edited by papyru30 on May 25th 2019 at 9:55:13 AM
Forgive me for the intrusion, y'all, but I wanted to let you guys know that I caught someone deleting an approved CM example here. Do with this situation what you will.
If this removal was actually discussed and approved, apologies ~
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
John and Scythe and everyone else I missed out.
I've just finish Arkham City and I wonder, I know we said Victor Zsaaz doesn't count due to heinous standard despite his insane body count for just being a normal serial killer but I wonder if we got another version of him as a candidate.
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle

I can give it a read tomorrow and see about him or you can go for it now HT, if you remember him well enough and want the EP?