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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162101: May 8th 2019 at 5:55:27 PM

[tup]Reverse and Fisk.

The Batgirl Joker image absolutely does not work, due to the controversy behind it.

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#162103: May 8th 2019 at 5:58:03 PM

Yeah, I'm gonna side against including the Batgirl image due to the controversy. I personally think it'd work, but the controversy behind it is too great.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#162104: May 8th 2019 at 6:01:51 PM

Also... yea to Director's Cut Fisk. And being honest, I think the only "underrated" parts of that shitfest were Fisk and Colin Farrel eating up the scenery as Bullseye (easily one of the best takes on the character ever).

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#162105: May 8th 2019 at 6:03:40 PM

Yeah it works well enough in isolation as a creepy image but it has some serious baggage surrounding it. I'll admit to not knowing too much about the controversy before this but now that I do I'm not comfortable with it going up either.

Also [tup] to Fisk if I haven't already said so.

Edited by papyru30 on May 8th 2019 at 7:04:58 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#162106: May 8th 2019 at 6:14:58 PM

[tup]Michael Clarke Duncan's Fisk.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#162107: May 8th 2019 at 6:17:08 PM

I always thought the Batgirl cover image controversy was stupid myself, but if it'll avoid needless conflict I'm okay with passing it up.

On a more positive note, I'm voting yes to Reverse (Feels weird not ending that with Flash) and Fisk... albeit a weak yes for the latter since he seems like a bog standard crime boss who just barely meets the criteria.

Edited by FriedWarthog on May 8th 2019 at 6:18:01 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#162108: May 8th 2019 at 6:22:43 PM

If I might briefly give my own opinion on the cover: It wouldn't be so bad if they also did something with Jason Todd like this. Have him crying with Joker having an arm over his shoulder, crowbar pressed to his temple. But they wouldn't do that because male heroes don't look vulnerable or weak. That doesn't sell comics.

A little bit of my cynicism is coming out, so I'll stop now. But I hope I made my point.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162109: May 8th 2019 at 6:52:02 PM

Double standards are not good.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#162110: May 8th 2019 at 7:26:24 PM

Yes to the last two candidates and let's move on from the image, folks.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#162112: May 8th 2019 at 7:48:09 PM

[tup] to Fisk

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#162113: May 8th 2019 at 8:28:29 PM

Now. I'd finally finished Deathopia and I can surely say that Reverse still remains as one of the most horrific villains of the series.

Now...the manga had a weird ending, including turning the iconic then Big Bad into a Big Bad Wannabe Well-Intentioned Extremist that was killed for the plans of the next guy.

...rushed endings guys, poor author got cancelled. Thought he easily could have got a way better ending if he kept Ud as the Big Bad, he was amazing.

Criticism aside. The ultimate Big Bad was a pretty nasty dude.

Who is The Master?

Born as Magata Agito, he's the brother of the biological mother of The Protagonist Kou Fujimara and thus his Evil Uncle and also the brother-in-law of the man that would become Ud, the Big Bad Wannabe.

Agito was arrested for the brutal killing of two woman. As he was captured, Ud discovered that his genes were different. Agito is actually the first Cheater.

Ud experimented on him causing him massive agony. Agito called his sister who broke off security to save him, however, as she was doing that, Agito infected her with the Cheater "virus", dooming her to eternal suffering as she was doomed between her own power and Agito's own inmortality. Agito planned to live in her body until he found Kou, who nullified his own powers and forced him to ran away.

Then, Agito shared the Cheater virus with many persons and created his new identity as The Master, leading a small cult inside his catholic church which plans into "unleashing hell in Tokyo" via a coup d' state alongside a ambitious Japanese militar. The Master plans into the causing the collapse of civilization and the creation of a Cheater world.

He sends a Cheater of his group to kill Du, who was trying to stop him, and then, when the heroes do a assasination attempt on him and sucessfully cut his head, it seems that The Master was finally dead. In the meantime, The Master keeps the barely sentient remains of his sister that he retrieved from Du's headquarters.

But no, a servant of him sacrificed her life to allow her Master's head in her body. The Master kills Yui and to insult his newphew, telling him about how much he enjoys making his sister's son suffer and die in a fire while planning to unleash his destructive coup. However, Hinata, Kou's adoptive sister, turns out to be the real person behind Kou's powers. The Master powers are nullified and then, he dies due to his injuries.

He still left more Cheaters to cause mayhem in the city, but The Adventure Continues.

Heinous standard?

He's behind many of the Cheaters in general. He actively plans for the destruction of civilization, he doomed his own sister to non-stop pain for 17 years, he don't cares for his followers, etc.

His evil is certainly...different from other villains of the manga. While other villains tend to be Serial Killer ones, The Master's evil radicates on his plan, which basically would allow people like—for example, Reverse—to be totally free and, in a weird way, in how damn personal he is in his villainy.

Passes. He literally plans killing half of Tokyo, 6.8 millions of persons. No other villain plans killing as many people.

Redeeming traits?

He was a dick brother to his sister even before he become the ultimate Ungrateful Bastard and tried to take her body, doomed her to a And I Must Scream fate and then he had the assholery enought to keep her barely sentient remains with him in a jar, he actively enjoy hurting his nephew because he knows that he's hurting his sister...

Amazing brother.

Nothing redeeming.

Verdict?

Keep

Edited by KazuyaProta on May 8th 2019 at 10:30:36 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#162114: May 8th 2019 at 8:31:22 PM

[tup] to the master

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AFreakyDude Since: Jul, 2015
#162119: May 8th 2019 at 8:52:48 PM

I've been expecting you. Your life, your name. They will be wiped from history! Come, it is time to die!

Since Kronika is added, anyone feeling this quote for the Quotes page?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#162122: May 8th 2019 at 9:02:24 PM

Yea to the Master, no to the quote.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#162123: May 8th 2019 at 9:21:00 PM

Last Deathopia candidate. So, the first enemy of Kou is also one of his wickest ones.

Who is Karen Kirishima?

The Starter Villain of the series. Karen is a feared killer that wants to hunts people to steal their eyes by ripping them off. To do this, she willingly works as a prostitute named Laura to convince people that like her to work with her.

By the begging of the series, Karen is pretty much The Dreaded among the Cheaters with her gang following as she steals the eyes that attact her. She kepts them in jars, of which she had many pairs.

She decides to hunt Kou due to his special eyes and uses her gang. When one of her boyfriends had doubts about helping her and crashes their car, the crash heavily injures her followers, but Karen just run away but not before beating said boyfriend to death and taking his eyes while talking how he should be grateful for that.

Later, after being forced to ran away. The protagonist seach for Karen and find all her gang dead in a bloody scenario alongside with the seemingly dead corpse of Karen. However, despite the surprise factor, that was a trap of Karen which didn't worked, leading to her dead at hands of the heroines.

Redeeming traits?

Nah. She's just a thrill seeking killer.

Heinous standard?

Now, she doesn't have the resources as more powerful Cheaters. But neither the particularly painful method as Reverse. What she does have?

Numbers.

She starts with 23 confirmed victims, but once you add the heavily bloody massacre of her own followers as a useless trap and her complete uncaring behavior to them...the number is bigger, she's a notorious Bad Boss. She's The Dreaded even for other Villain of the Week Cheaters, which really should tell you about how bad she was.

Karen is heinous for the standards of the series, especially given her relative low resources due to being a independant actress.

Verdict?

I say Yes.

Sidenote but she also "appears" in another manga from the author, Elfen had reserved it but for what I've got, the mangas really aren't related and Karen's appareance is more because she was pretty popular for the massive Evil Is Sexy factor. For starters, if it really was a Stealth Sequel to Deathopia, Karen would be dead.

If Elfen confirms that the series really were related, then he will do the rewrite (if she didn't show redeeming traits, that is).

Edited by KazuyaProta on May 8th 2019 at 11:26:05 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#162124: May 8th 2019 at 9:30:04 PM

Yes to the Deathopia candidates. And yes, I'll handle Satanofani soon enough. While the manga is less praised, I'm a bit intrigued at the same time.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature

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